The Freedom Toaster is a free vending machine/kiosk that dispenses open source software burned to CD or DVD in locations throughout South Africa. Hudson also evaluates funding proposals and runs technical projects for the Shuttleworth Foundation.

Marshall:

Would you like to put your personal spin on an intro to why the Freedom Toaster is important?

Jason:

Certainly. It's a way of including bandwidth starved communities with what's happening in the open source software and open content world.

Marshall:

In the developed world total cost of ownership is a key question when it comes to using open source software because of the support needed is this an issue for Freedom Toaster users and if so how do they deal with it?

Jason:

It is an issue. We've been able to get around it with the help that the Go-Open Campaign provides. They operate a call desk for everyday users to call in and request help.

Marshall:

Can I find a list of languages supported by the call desk on the Freedom Toaster site?

Jason:

Well, we support English and Afrikaans...It's only for SAfrican folk... Having 11 official languages makes things tricky here... we [also] support translate.org.

Marshall:

Right on, so for clarification's sake the Freedom Toaster is South Africa specific?

Jason:

For now. We have big plans for it. Most of the interest in the project has come from abroad. The Shuttleworth Foundation pilots innovative high risk projects that are easily replicable. We are packaging all our knowledge on the Freedom Toaster, and distributing that via the website. See our documentation page. We also plan to manufacture and support units.

Marshall:

How is the connectivity landscape changing in the developing world (or South Africa in particular) and how is this effecting your work?

Jason:

It's taking time. Hopefully the eassy cable will go some way to help the situation. Costs are a huge issue, see http://www.internet.org.za/costs.html. It's not possible for many South Africans to access the net, due to restrictive telecoms practices here. We have a monopoly that dictates pricing www.telkom.co.za. Here is a very interesting parody site: www.hellkom.co.za. They have some very interesting articles on the current state of things. Wikipedia also has an article or two on Telkom and Hellkom.

Marshall:

So the Freedom Toaster is moving ahead now instead of waiting for connectivity to become closer to ubiquitous and equitable? Is that your take on it?

Jason:

Definitely, there's no time to waste. The Freedom Toaster is a short term solution with many immediate possibilities.

Marshall:

Is interoperability with proprietary software an issue?

Jason:

Well, when it comes to productivity apps, there's the OpenOffice.org vs Office argument. Particularly when it comes to Impress vs Powerpoint, and an excel user porting sheets with a heavy reliance on macros... [See a recent Tech Soup comparison of these two suites.]

Most of our support calls have been around productivity apps, and interoperability with windows and mac. When it comes to server side interoperability, you have people making decisions that are able to implement the pieces of software they require given the constraints of interoperability.

Marshall:

My understanding is the open source software’s kernel development is a basically hierarchical process centered in the developed world... is this the case and how does it effect initiatives like yours?

Jason:

It is the case, but anyone is free to join that hierarchical process and contribute...It doesn't affect us at all. Another project of ours www.tuXlabs.org , actively contributes to the development of Edubuntu [Edubuntu: Linux for Young Human Beings].

Marshall:

What do you look for in making funding decisions, or deciding on which projects to implement?

Jason:

The project must be innovative. It must be based in South Africa, and it must fall in with our mandate of transforming lives through innovation. We are focusing on Maths, Science, and Technology subject areas in the South African education system. Projects that address needs in an innovative way will be received favourably.

We are also focusing on phenomena. We want to fund or initiate projects that have the potential to address the same needs in other countries.

Marshall:

Are there lessons you've learned from the open source world that lend a particular perspective on questions regarding quality innovation?

Jason:

Yes. Community involvement and volunteerism. We have found that projects that have an active community/volunteer component are more successful and sustainable. TuXlabs is a very good example of this, they've rolled out nearly 200 Free and Open Source Software (FOSS) labs in schools around the country with a large volunteer effort. The project would never have been as successful as it is, without that strong volunteer community.

Marshall:

Are there other elements you've found to be key in campaigns or steps to spread open source software?

Jason:

Yes. Be careful when you handout CDs that have the potential to wipeout a user's system :) Be honest and objective when comparing FOSS to proprietary...

Marshall:

Great, two last questions for you AM Can you think of anything that the tech vendor, open source or NGO communities could do themselves or offer you to help you do your work more effectively?

Jason:

Our internally initiated projects always require volunteers, and we provide Linux skills in return. We also prove projects, so if we have a project, like tuXlabs or the Freedom Toaster, we would encourage other NGOs to learn from what we've done and implement in their communities.

Marshall:

Finally, Net Squared is putting on a conference in San Francisco in the end of May, bringing together nonprofits, the tech sector and early adopters. Based on your experiences and perspectives, are there any key points that stand out for you regarding how a conference like that could be organized so that all participants could get the most out of it?

Jason:

I can only talk from an African perspective. I think folks should step back and consider cheaper forms of access from less traditional toolsets. Manual mechanisms - the kind that the latest and greatest technologies try and replace - are still needed to pass on relevant knowledge and information from the web.

Marshall:

Manual mechanisms means things like burning CDs, walking to a computer and installing by hand?

Jason:

That's one option. Check out Wizzy, drive by internet. These solutions work.

Marshall:

Fantastic. Well, I'm going to let you go. I really appreciate your time and thoughts.

Jason:

Great, thanks. It was good chatting to you. Take care.

Jason Hudson is the Technical Product Manager for the Shuttleworth Foundation and founder of the Freedom Toaster project.

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