Last month I interviewed Siegfried Woldhek, the founder and CEO of NABUUR for the NetSquared Podcast. NABUUR was one of the Featured Projects at the NetSquared Conference in May 2007. You can read a transcript of the interview below, and hear NABUUR's 5-minute pitch at the Conference here.

Siegfried Woldhek: Hi, I'm Siegfried Woldhek, and I'm the founder and CEO of NABUUR. NABUUR is an old Dutch word that means "neighbor." And it's chosen, that name, because we can now act as neighbors in the global village and help each other out, as neighbors do if they live together in a physical place.

NABUUR makes it possible for villages all around the world to get direct help from people that live elsewhere, far away or nearby, to solve local problems through the Internet. And the strange thing is, the wonderful thing is, that it actually works.

For example, I could mention a small village in Rwanda called Kagitumba, where the Hutus and the Tutsis are trying to live together again after that horrible war. And they don't have enough water to irrigate their agricultural fields, so they were looking for solutions for how to store their water better. And they put that question on NABUUR.

We built them a little village on our site, specifically for that particular village, where they show who they are and what their issues are. And then, amazingly, there were people from Rwanda itself, also from Kenya and from India, who told them how they solved their water storage issues. And that brought new solutions, new ideas to that place, Kagitumba in Rwanda, and they then applied those solutions. So, those solutions came from nearby: from Rwanda and from Kenya.

But then they went on and wanted to know how to better irrigate their water so that they would not spoil their precious water too much. And then they got answers and very concrete suggestions from people living in Germany and Australia and in the Netherlands, who showed them how they could start something called bucket drip irrigation, where the water is used very, very carefully. And they have applied that, and really boosted their crops through doing that.

So, solutions can come from nearby or from far away, from people who have dealt with those issues before. And it's not just knowledge. It's also where people actually go to a place and help build a school or get others that they know involved. And it really works, that today, we can act together as neighbors and solve issues, far away, through the Internet. And I think that's a wonderful, wonderful application of the Internet.

Britt Bravo: Where did the idea for NABUUR come from?

SW: Well, if I'm very immodest, it came from me, and it came from my own experience. I was CEO of conservation organizations for 20 years or so, and for 10 years, CEO of the World Wildlife Fund in the Netherlands, which is a big organization with close to a million members in Holland alone. And I was approached every day by people, through the mail, or later through the Internet, asking what else they could do. They wanted to do more than just give money.

And basically, you can imagine, with a million members, that are a lot of people that approach you every day. Even if it's only a small percentage of that million, you're talking about a lot of people.

Basically, we had to turn them down, because the organization was so busy doing its own work that trying to think what the others could do was just something the organization was not made for. And it was later that I realized that this was not just the World Wildlife Fund, but any organization, whether it's a government or a business or an NGO. It's usually so busy doing its own stuff, own plans, own people, and own money, that it's very hard for volunteers to actually hook on and contribute in a way that makes sense to those volunteers.

On the other hand, of course, our drawers were full with stuff that also needed to be done and we knew wouldn't get done, not because we didn't want to and not because there was not enough money, but simply, the system could not absorb more than the number of projects that we were dealing with.

And also, that is something that I think is very common to the institutions as we know them, the governments and the businesses and the NGOs. Once you have a couple hundred projects, and some manage 1, 000 projects, under your roof, then you're just full. And all the energy goes into running those projects, and there's no more time to do anything except running those projects. And the need around the world is much bigger than what all the institutions together can do.

So, forgive me for the long answer, but the basic thought then was: what if one could marry those two entities? There is a huge demand out there in the world, where local communities need to have problems solved, but will never get solved by what we now have, in terms of institutions, with the enormous supply of people who want to do more than just give money, who would actually want to get involved directly and help out directly and feel a total human being by not just giving money, but actually feeling that what you know, the context that you have, your physical power, is actually put to use and appreciated by somebody who needs it.

If you could combine those two, you would actually tap into a completely new source of energy and organize something, in addition to what the institutions that we know are already doing.

So, that was the basic thought. And then I left World Wildlife Fund and started looking for something that would self-organize, because if you organize this centrally, then, of course, the moment you have a couple hundred projects under your roof, you go the same route, and you are full with those projects.

So, it was important that it would self-organize. And I looked for systems, for things that self-organized.

And the most interesting example I could think of was of neighbors, because, all around the world--and I'm not saying this happens in every case; of course, it doesn't--but in any country in the world, you will find that if a limited number of people live together in one place, and if something bad happens to some of them, that the rest will get together and say, "We need to do something. Not because we're friends, not because we're experts, not because we're funders, but because we live in this same place, and it doesn't feel good if one of us, a few of us, are suffering like this."

And then, typically, neighbors will get together. Somebody will say, "Let's meet at my place Friday night or whatever. I'll make sure there's some coffee or something else to drink." They will get together, and then the conversation will typically be, "I think we should do something, but I know nothing about this particular problem." Nor does the other, until somebody says, "I don't either, but my brother-in-law, or I know somebody at work that does."

So, through neighbors, what is needed, actually gets access and gets them drawn into the discussions. And so neighbors all around the world sort of work from the supposition that the resources are out there. There is enough money, there is enough manpower, there is enough physical stuff, or knowledge or whatever, to solve what needs to be solved. But the people that have problems don't know how to access those resources. And that's what neighbors do.

Again, they're not experts. They're not funders. They don't go to the neighbors saying, "Well, we've thought about it, and here's our advice." Or they don't go and say, "Here's $100, and good luck with it." No. They get together and organize what is necessary and are there on Saturday morning, 20 of them, and have transported stuff there, whatever. They find the money to do that if that is necessary. But basically, they do it. And once it's done, it's done, and then everybody sort of sits back again and becomes a neighbor again.

You say, "Hello." You know who the neighbors are, but you don't do anything in particular unless, or until, a couple years later, something else happens, and then this whole thing reorganizes, self-organizes, again.

So, the fact that this self-organizes in so many places throughout the world, I thought, was very promising. So that was the idea. If you could marry the best of the old (that is, a time-tested mechanism of self-organization: neighborhoods) with the best of the new (that is, "Web 2.0"), then that could be a very, very powerful combination.

BB: What is the next step for NABUUR? What are its goals and challenges?

SW: Well, what we find is that, doing projects, as is now being done on our site... I say "being done" because the actual work is actually done by the online volunteers, which we call "neighbors." Doing the projects is good, and there are fantastic stories. The one that I just mentioned very briefly, of Kagitumba, Rwanda, is only one, but there are many of those stories. And each of them is a little miracle.

But what we also see is that this still can sort of reinforce the handout method, where people in a particular place sort of ask for something and then hope that somebody will help them, and sit back and wait and become dependent. And this dependency mode is, of course, very detrimental to the whole process.

We also see, in some places--in more than some, luckily, but in quite a few places--that the local representatives, the people from the village, use this as a window to the world and take control of their own future, as of day one. Where they see that they don't write an application and then wait for one year before they hear "no: from some sort of anonymous institution, but where, as of day one, they get contact to new people, they get fresh solutions; they get suggestions for institutions to approach, or whatever.

And this attitude is so valuable, because that continues throughout time and allows people to go beyond the one little project. And so the big challenge we now have is how to apply what we see in those few place all around the site and make that something that is part and parcel of the methodology.

The thoughts we now have to progress here is, rather than a new local community applying to our office in Amersfoort in the Netherlands, they would first enter a place where other local communities already exist, and where they would exchange experience from the beginning and get some guidance and some suggestions from others that went through that, and would determine whether this is for them or not, and where their need, the thing they want to work on, is then screened--screened is not the right word--but is further detailed in discussions with those colleagues, rather than with us.

So, again, to self-organize that and to learn from others that already went through it how to take control of your own future, I think, is something we can embed in the methodology. And we're trying that, and that looks very, very promising. That is where you get much more confident people that are much more in charge, as I say, of their own future, rather than sit back and hope that somebody will be kind enough to help them.

BB: What was the positive impact for NABUUR of going to the NetSquared Conference?

SW: The first enormous boost that we got was the fact that we were allowed to take part in the competition and then actually managed to become one of the Featured Projects. That was a tremendous boost for all of us. When I say all of us, I mean the communities that took part, the neighbors that were involved, the few staff that we have.

To be sitting somewhere in Holland, which is very far from Silicon Valley, and to be then recognized as one of those Featured Projects was absolutely fantastic. And then, of course, to actually go there and meet these people was much more than a bonus.

I was personally a bit anxious whether it would be seen, whether we would be talked to, whether we would get any help, because there were so many other qualified parties out there.

But it was fantastic. We got so much support and so much enthusiasm from basically everybody there. And we got a lot of concrete suggestions. We didn't know how to make badges, for example, on our site, and people helped us out to do that. We met organizations such as TakingITGlobal and Care2, who want to do something with us. We would love to do something with them, and I'm sure we'll get there.

We didn't know how to supply SMS to local representatives out there in the world, because, in Asia and in Africa, SMS is a much, much more widespread phenomenon than the access to the Internet is, where people usually have to go to an Internet cafe, which is difficult, costs a lot of money, and takes too much of their time. So, if we could build that into our site, that would really be a huge service to local representatives in those villages in Africa and Asia.

And we did get, and still get, help from people to make that happen on our site. So, both in terms of morale and recognition, and in terms of getting actual stuff of value that will improve our services, we were just tremendously pleased with the things that went on there in San Jose.

BB: How can listeners help to move your work forward?

SW: Well, log on to NABUUR.com and find work to do. We love to have more people come to our site, get excited, and talk about us to others. So far, we haven't been spreading the word too much, because we wanted to have the basic operations in place so that we wouldn't promise too much. But now, we really want people to talk about it.

And if people can help us with making it more viral, making it so that if somebody likes what he is doing and it becomes easy to tell it to others, through all sorts of little applications that you have today, that would be wonderful, because we have one web designer in our office. We only have seven staff that need to do much more than we can do. And we really need some help with that particular point: how to make it more viral, where it becomes easy for people who are excited about what we're doing to tell it to others.

BB: Is there anything else you want people to know about NABUUR?

SW: We got together with a few local representatives from Africa and Asia and asked them what getting involved in NABUUR meant to them, because we weren't quite sure whether we were actually offering something to them that was of value. And much to my delight, and my surprise, all of them--there was 10 of them--said, "This is such a difference from writing an application to an anonymous organization."

In that situation, which all of them knew, you write something, and then it needs to be a big document. It has all sorts of figures in it and time tables that usually have not much connection with reality. And then you wait. You wait for half a year or a year, and then you hear something from some institution, or you don't, and that may be the end of it. But basically, you sit and you wait.

And what these people told us was that if they go to NABUUR, they are in charge of their own future, as of day one. They get new contacts. They get new solutions. They get new websites or access to new organizations. People sort things for them out: "Can you tell us which organizations work in that area, nearby or far away? Which person to contact or whatever. Could you make the initial contact for me?" Etcetera. And people start running for them.

And to be in charge of their own future is something that all of them said was the key difference in their interaction with NABUUR. And that is something I'm really delighted about, because that, I think, is very promising--much more promising than doing a one-off project and having people wait, in a dependency mode. Here, they are in charge, and they are empowered to do their own work.

And I should, perhaps, add that the local representatives that you see on our site--that is, the people coming from those villages in Africa and Asia and Latin America--are just extraordinary. I know everybody says that.

But I've worked with conservation organizations for so many years, for several decades, and I've visited many places around the world and have always been in awe with what happens locally. People living there under difficult circumstances and doing fantastic work, and spending many more hours than I do, and spending much more energy than people around me do on finding those solutions. Very creative, very powerful stuff.

The people that I meet through NABUUR are in a completely different league. Those 10 people that I just mentioned, I think only one of them has a job; the others are jobless. They try and get some money during the day doing all sorts of little things here and there, but they study at night, typically. They live in communities that are scorched by AIDS. Some of them were child soldiers. It's just horrendous. It's hell up there. And yet, these people are not asking for a scholarship to flee the country.

They don't know each other. They've met for the first time. Each of them, individually, has taken the decision, "I want to stay here, and I want to make this place a better place." And they find their way to the Internet. Which, again, I think is just amazing, the stories that you hear, where they know that there's something called the "Internet".

They hear about that, and then they find their way to a place half an hour away, walking, or with a bus that they can't afford, and then they sit online and get access to the Internet. And then they start searching on this thing called Internet for whatever. And somehow, they then end up with NABUUR. It is just so touching to see the hunger and the eagerness to become stronger and to find support and to make their own place a better place. And if we can support that through the Internet, I think we're doing something fantastic.