May 31, 14:59:06 PDT> *Alex*: Nancy, I have an interesting (?) story to
kick off this afternoon's discussion of facilitation

May 31, 14:59:07 PDT> *Eric Leland*: absolutely!

May 31, 14:59:12 PDT> *Nancy W*: Excellent!

May 31, 14:59:20 PDT> *Nancy W*: Kicking is good! ;-)

May 31, 14:59:28 PDT> *Alex*: I don't know if you're familiar with the
chat tool we've been using yesterday & today -- Gabbly

May 31, 14:59:47 PDT> *Alex*: it's super-basic, which we saw as a
feature b/c we didn't want to turn people off who weren't up on IRC

May 31, 14:59:48 PDT> *Nancy W*: I've played with it on a friend's site
a month or so ago. How is it working out for y'all?

May 31, 14:59:57 PDT> *Alex*: well, it's been really interesting

May 31, 15:00:05 PDT> *Nancy W*: Yeah, IRC is still mumbo jumbo for many
of us. :-)

May 31, 15:00:09 PDT> *Nancy W*: Say more!

May 31, 15:00:11 PDT> *Alex*: we've had a few tech glitches, mostly from
people at the ftf conference

May 31, 15:00:29 PDT> *Alex*: I think we underestimated the intricacies
of how success might affect our servers

May 31, 15:00:35 PDT> *Nancy W*: Ahhhh....

May 31, 15:00:37 PDT> *Alex*: which think we're running drupal, not gabbly

May 31, 15:00:49 PDT> *Alex*: and weren't totally geared up for high
traffic between our servers and gabbly

May 31, 15:00:54 PDT> *Nancy W*: oops! That must have caused the tech
admins some gray hairs.

May 31, 15:00:59 PDT> *Alex*: but mostly it's worked great

May 31, 15:01:04 PDT> *Eric Leland*: technology should just get along.

May 31, 15:01:12 PDT> *Nancy W*: How many people ahve you had on average
in the chats?

May 31, 15:01:26 PDT> *Alex*: usually 30 logged in at any one time

May 31, 15:01:29 PDT> *Nancy W*: (I see we are 32 now, but not clear who
is actually reading. If you are reading, say HI!)

May 31, 15:01:41 PDT> *Iangbruk*: Hi

May 31, 15:01:45 PDT> *Alex*: maybe 5-10 active participants each hour

May 31, 15:01:45 PDT> *teck*: hi

May 31, 15:01:47 PDT> *Alex*: and what's interesting to me about that is
that it has none of the bells & whistles I've been told we need for
effective online facilitation

May 31, 15:01:48 PDT> *flora*: hi

May 31, 15:01:54 PDT> *gr√?¬©goire*: hi

May 31, 15:01:56 PDT> *Eric Leland*: I think the hallway yesterday
afternoon saw the most active participants, around 15 or so at once.

May 31, 15:01:57 PDT> *Alex*: I was really worried we'd need moderator
tools to maintain order

May 31, 15:02:09 PDT> *PatrickH*: HI

May 31, 15:02:16 PDT> *Nancy W*: I almost never use moderator tools in
chats, but I don't do a lot of really large ones.

May 31, 15:02:30 PDT> *Alex*: but here we are running 2 chat rooms with
no ability to kick people out, queue participation, or anything

May 31, 15:02:32 PDT> *Nancy W*: But look, NPO folks are friendly. Look
at how folks are saying hi!

May 31, 15:02:37 PDT> *gabber459*: hi

May 31, 15:02:41 PDT> *Alex*: and teck is here!

May 31, 15:02:46 PDT> *teck*: hi Alex!

May 31, 15:02:48 PDT> *Alex*: he's the Gabbly king

May 31, 15:03:00 PDT> *Nancy W*: Say that fast five times!

May 31, 15:03:16 PDT> *Alex*: teck is our hero today b/c he helped us
get transcripts of yesterday's sessions

May 31, 15:03:20 PDT> *Nancy W*: (I can imagine all of us muttering at
our screens, Gabbly King Babbly King Nabblyking)

May 31, 15:03:34 PDT> *Nancy W*: Thanks, teck

May 31, 15:03:34 PDT> *teck*: i'm happy to help!

May 31, 15:03:48 PDT> *Nancy W*: So Alex, should we use the topic of
chat facilitation as a starter?

May 31, 15:04:03 PDT> *Alex*: great!

May 31, 15:04:05 PDT> *Nancy W*: (Or more properly, are the rest of you
interested in that?)

May 31, 15:04:26 PDT> *teck*: i'll be interested ;)

May 31, 15:04:47 PDT> *Alex*: I hope teck will weigh in too with his
experience of how faciliation works in gabbly

May 31, 15:04:59 PDT> *Nancy W*: Cool! Maybe we should play a quick
round of Just Three Words to get everyone involved. Here are the rules.
Your post can have JUST THREE WORDS. So when you think about chat
faciltiation, what three words come to mind?

May 31, 15:05:00 PDT> *Eric Leland*: yes :) Also the integration of chat
combined with faciltating ppt or app sharing... how to deal with all the
tools!

May 31, 15:05:29 PDT> *Nancy W*: Fast typists dominate

May 31, 15:05:30 PDT> *Eric Leland*: scattered, fast, sound bites

May 31, 15:05:39 PDT> *Eric Leland*: four words sorry

May 31, 15:05:45 PDT> *Nancy W*: :-)

May 31, 15:05:46 PDT> *Emily*: read, share, type

May 31, 15:06:13 PDT> *Nancy W*: brainstorm flow connect

May 31, 15:06:14 PDT> *gr√?¬©goire*: communication language feeling

May 31, 15:06:44 PDT> *Karen*: synopse of chat

May 31, 15:06:44 PDT> *Nancy W*: fast brain synapses

May 31, 15:06:45 PDT> *Karen*: really terrible spelling

May 31, 15:06:51 PDT> *teck*: conversation, encourage, questions

May 31, 15:07:11 PDT> *Nancy W*: spilling words spontaneous

May 31, 15:07:11 PDT> *Emily*: type too fast

May 31, 15:07:11 PDT> *Alex*: embrace the chaos

May 31, 15:07:11 PDT> *Nancy W*: chaos to ideas

May 31, 15:07:53 PDT> *Nancy W*: any more words?

May 31, 15:08:15 PDT> *Eric Leland*: security, anonymity

May 31, 15:08:38 PDT> *Nancy W*: OK, that was just an example of how we
can take a tiny bit of structure in chat and play with it to get
engagement. I also like it for brainstorming.

May 31, 15:08:50 PDT> *Nancy W*: So, how do y'all use chat? What
facilitation processes do you use?

May 31, 15:09:40 PDT> *Emily*: I liked that example

May 31, 15:09:48 PDT> *Eric Leland*: very rarely, but sometimes as a
secondary tool for getting questions from an audience directly to me
(such as during a conference call), or comments from my colleages

May 31, 15:09:54 PDT> *Alex*: maybe this is a good place for me to "out"
our moderator guidelines for NetSquared

May 31, 15:10:03 PDT> *Nancy W*: Haha! Sure.

May 31, 15:10:13 PDT> *Alex*: the guidelines we sent people moderating
this chat room are at http://www.netsquared.org/chat-moderators

May 31, 15:10:19 PDT> *Nancy W*: Eric, I now use chat paired with
skype/telephone for note taking and for back channeling

May 31, 15:10:24 PDT> *Alex*: and for hallway moderators,
http://www.netsquared.org/hallway-moderators

May 31, 15:10:36 PDT> *Nancy W*: (Opening in new tab and scannign)

May 31, 15:10:39 PDT> *Alex*: I ask only that people use my personal
contact info on those pages for good rather than evil

May 31, 15:11:10 PDT> *Alex*: my favourite back channel tool is SubEthaEdit

May 31, 15:11:14 PDT> *Nancy W*: funny example name, that Nancy White.

May 31, 15:11:28 PDT> *Alex*: you're famous ;)

May 31, 15:11:30 PDT> *Eric Leland*: I find it pretty tough to pay
attention to two or more conversations and not lose my train of thought

May 31, 15:11:34 PDT> *Nancy W*: So what do you do with your PEE CEE
friends with SubEthaEdit? How do the platform wars impact our role as
facilitators.

May 31, 15:11:52 PDT> *Alex*: SubEtha is a networked text editor that
lets multiple collaborate with other mac users on a single doc in real time

May 31, 15:12:14 PDT> *Nancy W*: Eric, it is also easy to diverge
between those who pay good attention adn those of us with the habit of
flitting around. We think we are participating, butg our attention may
be really fractured.

May 31, 15:12:30 PDT> *Alex*: nancy, is that intrinsically problematic?

May 31, 15:12:47 PDT> *Alex*: or are our minds/bodies/cultures evolving
into an ADD-friendly norm?

May 31, 15:12:50 PDT> *Nancy W*: If a group has a purpose they need to
achieve, it can be.

May 31, 15:13:00 PDT> *Nancy W*: There are pratices to help center
attention.

May 31, 15:13:01 PDT> *Nancy W*: Want to try one or two?

May 31, 15:13:19 PDT> *Alex*: yes!

May 31, 15:13:23 PDT> *Nancy W*: (In other words, there are times when
slowing down can be useful.)

May 31, 15:13:29 PDT> *Alex*: of course, I have to check on my other
chat rooms first ;)

May 31, 15:13:33 PDT> *Nancy W*: OK, here is the first one. Haha

May 31, 15:13:40 PDT> *Nancy W*: Ok, everyone first take your hands off
the keyb oard

May 31, 15:13:42 PDT> *Eric Leland*: I recently used live meeting, but
had colleagues pay attention to the chat, and to whether folks were
connected, while I did the voice + app sharing + slides. This worked
great, but lots of overhead for the conference.

May 31, 15:13:48 PDT> *Nancy W*: stretch towards the sky and wiggle your
fingers

May 31, 15:14:01 PDT> *Nancy W*: feel the stretch all the way down to
your spine and down your back

May 31, 15:14:02 PDT> *Nancy W*: Breathe

May 31, 15:14:04 PDT> *Nancy W*: breathe

May 31, 15:14:08 PDT> *Nancy W*: breath

May 31, 15:14:15 PDT> *Nancy W*: roll your shoulders

May 31, 15:14:20 PDT> *Nancy W*: bring your arms down

May 31, 15:14:23 PDT> *Nancy W*: breathe

May 31, 15:14:25 PDT> *Nancy W*: breathe

May 31, 15:14:40 PDT> *Nancy W*: now look at the list ofpeople on the
right in the chat room

May 31, 15:14:47 PDT> *Nancy W*: imagine your are in a circle with them,
all facing towards the center of teh circle.

May 31, 15:14:52 PDT> *Nancy W*: read each name

May 31, 15:15:08 PDT> *Nancy W*: recognize each one as a person who is
part of this circle/chat, even if silent.

May 31, 15:15:11 PDT> *Nancy W*: breathe

May 31, 15:15:13 PDT> *Nancy W*: breathe

May 31, 15:15:26 PDT> *Nancy W*: Now, put your hands back on the
keyboard. How do you feel?

May 31, 15:15:53 PDT> *Eric Leland*: my carpal tunnels thank you

May 31, 15:16:04 PDT> *Nancy W*: :-)

May 31, 15:16:10 PDT> *teck*: more relaxed.. and there's now a picture
in my mind

May 31, 15:16:11 PDT> *Alex*: I feel more eager to hear from the lurkers

May 31, 15:16:18 PDT> *gr√?¬©goire*: as a part of a whole

May 31, 15:16:26 PDT> *Alex*: also want to know if you're available for
labour coaching ;)

May 31, 15:16:37 PDT> *Nancy W*: ;-) via chat, of course, Alex

May 31, 15:17:12 PDT> *Nancy W*: chat can make us tense up, crunch over
our keyboards. taking a stretch break in the middle of a focused chat
can really re-center a group and create openings for renewed participation.

May 31, 15:17:21 PDT> *Nancy W*: I use then when using chat while
teaching a class.

May 31, 15:17:40 PDT> *Nancy W*: we don't have to divorce our bodies
when we work online.

May 31, 15:17:47 PDT> *Nancy W*: We just need ways to bring them into
the experience.

May 31, 15:18:02 PDT> *Nancy W*: Now, next question. what are any of you
listening to during this chat?

May 31, 15:18:02 PDT> *Alex*: what do you think of second life, in that
regard?

May 31, 15:18:23 PDT> *Nancy W*: I have not spent enought time there to
really say. what do y'all think?

May 31, 15:18:57 PDT> *MJanofsky*: hi Nancy! nice to have you here!

May 31, 15:19:01 PDT> *Nancy W*: Is anyone listening to the presentation
at teh F2F?

May 31, 15:19:02 PDT> *Nancy W*: Hiya!

May 31, 15:19:08 PDT> *Eric Leland*: I feel like the extended life in
the social web is enough for me for now.

May 31, 15:19:09 PDT> *Nancy W*: Is anyone listenign to music?

May 31, 15:19:14 PDT> *teck*: listening to made-up voices in my head

May 31, 15:19:16 PDT> *enochchoi*: I'm bopping in and out of here, in
between patients ;)

May 31, 15:19:18 PDT> *Nancy W*: LOL, me too

May 31, 15:19:21 PDT> *Eric Leland*: sirens

May 31, 15:19:28 PDT> *Nancy W*: Wow, Enoch, that is bopping for sure

May 31, 15:19:34 PDT> *Alex*: I'm in an internet cafe, with nice music
playing

May 31, 15:19:36 PDT> *Nancy W*: So try this...

May 31, 15:19:42 PDT> *Nancy W*: Go to this page http://www.healersway.com/

May 31, 15:19:46 PDT> *Alex*: of course everyone here thinks I'm nuts
ever since the finger-wiggling

May 31, 15:19:51 PDT> *Nancy W*: And enter the site. Turn up your
speakers if you are in a place where you can.

May 31, 15:19:58 PDT> *Nancy W*: Alex, they KNOW you are nuts! So it's
no problem!

May 31, 15:20:22 PDT> *MJanofsky*: Alex _can't_ be as nuts as I am

May 31, 15:20:32 PDT> *Nancy W*: When I introduce a class to chat and
most of the people are novice chatters, they say it feels stressed out
to them...

May 31, 15:20:38 PDT> *Nancy W*: they feel overwhelmed by the flow of
chat...

May 31, 15:20:39 PDT> *MJanofsky*: (what's this about finfer-wiggling)

May 31, 15:20:46 PDT> *Nancy W*: particularly people who are ...um...
ahemmm...

May 31, 15:20:51 PDT> *Nancy W*: not 24 or under!

May 31, 15:21:03 PDT> *Nancy W*: So when they get stressed, I send them
to listen to that site while we chat...

May 31, 15:21:14 PDT> *Nancy W*: the audio stimulation does soemthing to
make them feel better...

May 31, 15:21:17 PDT> *Nancy W*: it is really weird...

May 31, 15:21:23 PDT> *Nancy W*: it changes the tone of the chat...

May 31, 15:21:26 PDT> *Nancy W*: so we can think about...

May 31, 15:21:38 PDT> *Nancy W*: how we blend our modalities, even when
in a text based environment...

May 31, 15:21:42 PDT> *teck*: that's why spas play those music too

May 31, 15:21:47 PDT> *Nancy W*: and use that to facilitate the creation
of a shared experience. Yeah

May 31, 15:22:10 PDT> *Nancy W*: So what techniques to y'all use? What
do you notice when you facilitate chats? I'll shut up for a while

May 31, 15:22:37 PDT> *teck*: are you saying we should provide
background music in gabbly? ;)

May 31, 15:22:43 PDT> *MJanofsky*: Listening is key. Not talking to much.

May 31, 15:22:48 PDT> *MJanofsky*: (for me)

May 31, 15:23:02 PDT> *Nancy W*: You could. Some of us experimented a
few years ago with creating shared playlists on webjay to use during
chats...

May 31, 15:23:11 PDT> *Alex*: Michael's done a great job facilitating in
here!

May 31, 15:23:12 PDT> *Nancy W*: we had a work set, a relaxation set, a
play set.

May 31, 15:23:48 PDT> *Nancy W*: Michael, I'm nodding in agreement. And
thinking I should sit on my hands. Not sure if that is proper guest
behavior, but it a great facilitator skill~!

May 31, 15:23:54 PDT> *Eric Leland*: I notice some folks type lots of
fragments in a row, other folks write longer sentences, more complete
thoughts. Makes the thought process not synched up as well.

May 31, 15:23:58 PDT> *Alex*: I came across this music service recently
that lets you set up keyword-based music searches -- MusicIP

May 31, 15:24:11 PDT> *Nancy W*: Eric, I use a little trick...

May 31, 15:24:19 PDT> *Nancy W*: with elipsess...

May 31, 15:24:20 PDT> *Nancy W*: so peopel dont have to wait too long...

May 31, 15:24:22 PDT> *Nancy W*: to see something...

May 31, 15:24:29 PDT> *Nancy W*: but the dot dot dot indicates Im not
done...

May 31, 15:24:38 PDT> *MJanofsky*: (elipse-whatties? confoosing words
are tough in text!)

May 31, 15:24:40 PDT> *Nancy W*: when I'm done, I type GA which measn...

May 31, 15:24:42 PDT> *Nancy W*: Go Ahead

May 31, 15:24:49 PDT> *Nancy W*: elipses --- = dot dot dot

May 31, 15:24:56 PDT> *Nancy W*: It's the only fancy word I know! :-)

May 31, 15:24:59 PDT> *Nancy W*: GA

May 31, 15:25:11 PDT> *Eric Leland*: yes, I have used this too good
idea, but...

May 31, 15:25:14 PDT> *enochchoi*: I like writing lots of fragments in a
row...

May 31, 15:25:20 PDT> *Eric Leland*: sometimese folks need definitions...

May 31, 15:25:27 PDT> *Eric Leland*: some how to and best practicews

May 31, 15:25:47 PDT> *Nancy W*: (especially when the word is totally
spelled wrong. i have a wrist splint on. My typing sucks worse than usual)

May 31, 15:25:49 PDT> *MJanofsky*: I host a froum on TechSoup.org. I
tend to like to ask questions, but not directly. Sometimes just
watching, and not saying anything, things like that.

May 31, 15:26:00 PDT> *Nancy W*: Using silence

May 31, 15:26:33 PDT> *MJanofsky*: (text-to-speech Nancy!)

May 31, 15:26:33 PDT> *teck*: is GA a commonly used 'command' in chat?

May 31, 15:26:42 PDT> *MJanofsky*: ...or basic recognition, just to let
users know that they are being "seen" (even if i don't know the answer
to a question)

May 31, 15:27:00 PDT> *Nancy W*: teck, it is actually old-timey. Back to
AOL days

May 31, 15:27:07 PDT> *Nancy W*: Like 1996! :-)

May 31, 15:27:30 PDT> *Nancy W*: Michael, how do you encourage silent
folks to feel comfortable contributing?

May 31, 15:27:30 PDT> *MJanofsky*: one other thing before i run to
dinner......is abbreviations, etc... are good, but i use KISS when I
chat and try to keep the grammar/spelling DECENT

May 31, 15:27:30 PDT> *MJanofsky*: ok, be back in a bit

May 31, 15:27:33 PDT> *MJanofsky*: (sorry.....

May 31, 15:27:35 PDT> *Nancy W*: ciao. And Chow.

May 31, 15:27:36 PDT> *teck*: ah... an ancient chat command

May 31, 15:27:54 PDT> *Nancy W*: we unearth the traditions of our
ancestors. From 1996!

May 31, 15:28:41 PDT> *Nancy W*: I'm noticing that I'm doing a lot of
Skype VOIP/ w chat and I think my repetitive stress problems in my hands
are getting worse. Who would have imagined that adding voice would
actually increase my typeing?

May 31, 15:29:07 PDT> *Nancy W*: teck, the other thing the AOL chat
hosts did was use turn taking protocols. Ever see those?

May 31, 15:29:27 PDT> *teck*: like having a baton that you pass around
to speak?

May 31, 15:29:56 PDT> *Nancy W*: well, with asci

May 31, 15:30:04 PDT> *Nancy W*: If you have a comment, you would type !

May 31, 15:30:14 PDT> *Nancy W*: if you had a question, ?

May 31, 15:30:16 PDT> *Nancy W*: then you would wait for the moderator
to call on you

May 31, 15:30:26 PDT> *MJanofsky*: I guess I'm not going to leave yet

May 31, 15:30:27 PDT> *Nancy W*: Typically the mod would call on one and
note who was up next.

May 31, 15:30:39 PDT> *Nancy W*: Michael, have we won out over FOOD???
NO????

May 31, 15:30:55 PDT> *teck*: i see... i noticed that with today's
teenagers who multitask 15 IM windows on their desktops.. have many
threads of conversations don't faze them at all

May 31, 15:31:07 PDT> *MJanofsky*: (FOOD not ready yer.........must have
food..........food not ready yet)

May 31, 15:31:32 PDT> *Nancy W*: Yeah, teck

May 31, 15:31:40 PDT> *Alex*: I think the proliferation of 1-to-1 chat
is kind of problematic for effective use of group chat

May 31, 15:32:01 PDT> *Nancy W*: Very interesting observation. You have
my brain turning, Alex.

May 31, 15:32:03 PDT> *Alex*: I notice that now that I use AIM/Skype all
the time, I'm not as good in online group dynamics

May 31, 15:32:08 PDT> *MJanofsky*: I'm trying to find an example of how
I dealt with questions in TechSoup....

May 31, 15:32:29 PDT> *Alex*: you can tell who in a chat room is an
IM-er b/c we write short phrases

May 31, 15:32:33 PDT> *Nancy W*: What size groups did you used to work
with Alex?

May 31, 15:32:34 PDT> *Nancy W*: yeah

May 31, 15:32:44 PDT> *Alex*: whereas people for whom it's a special
occasion write entire thoughts

May 31, 15:32:52 PDT> *Nancy W*: Excellent observation

May 31, 15:32:53 PDT> *Eric Leland*: ture

May 31, 15:32:55 PDT> *Eric Leland*: true

May 31, 15:32:59 PDT> *gabber790*: very true.

May 31, 15:33:09 PDT> *MJanofsky*: (browser issue)

May 31, 15:33:13 PDT> *Alex*: I just did a chat exercise last month for
a workshop wiht a bunch of chat newbies

May 31, 15:33:15 PDT> *Nancy W*: (I'm glad I'm not the only one making
typos. You made me feel better, Eric)

May 31, 15:33:18 PDT> *Alex*: and the people who hadn't IMed before were
really disoriented by those who had

May 31, 15:33:20 PDT> *Eric Leland*: :)

May 31, 15:33:33 PDT> *Nancy W*: How do you help the group find some
common ground, Alex?

May 31, 15:33:36 PDT> *MJanofsky*: One big question I have is how do you
deal with TROLLS?

May 31, 15:33:51 PDT> *Nancy W*: Trolls? what trolls? :-)

May 31, 15:34:03 PDT> *Alex*: we didn't really - it was meant more as an
experiment so they'd know how chat felt, relative to other online
discussion tools like email or bboards

May 31, 15:34:05 PDT> *Scott M*: Someone mention my name?

May 31, 15:34:13 PDT> *Alex*: one person got so irritated she got up and
walked away

May 31, 15:34:19 PDT> *Nancy W*: That iswhen having a "boot" tool where
you can kick off a user can be reallu useful!

May 31, 15:34:40 PDT> *Scott M*: Alex, I've had similar experiences with
offering live chat events to some of our audience.

May 31, 15:34:44 PDT> *Nancy W*: seriously, what do y'all do about
trolls? what are your pratcies? (and does everyone know what we mean by
"trolls'?)

May 31, 15:34:47 PDT> *Scott M*: Many are not regular IMers

May 31, 15:35:17 PDT> *MJanofsky*: We had an "incident" for lack of a
better term, on TechSoup a while back

May 31, 15:35:33 PDT> *Nancy W*: Tell us the story, Michael

May 31, 15:35:36 PDT> *MJanofsky*: (anyone who has been part of the TS
community since early this year probably knows about it)

May 31, 15:35:40 PDT> *MJanofsky*: it really ended in a permanent ban of
the user.

May 31, 15:35:42 PDT> *Scott M*: Chat or boards?

May 31, 15:35:47 PDT> *Eric Leland*: boards

May 31, 15:35:51 PDT> *Scott M*: thx

May 31, 15:35:57 PDT> *MJanofsky*: basically, this user was trying to
give away some free laptops

May 31, 15:36:15 PDT> *MJanofsky*: for pickup in a local area only, but
got really defensive when we asked about shipping...

May 31, 15:36:21 PDT> *MJanofsky*: (using the ... technique)

May 31, 15:36:52 PDT> *MJanofsky*: then he was repeatedly posting false
information, etc...

May 31, 15:36:56 PDT> *MJanofsky*: it was really ANNOYING

May 31, 15:37:32 PDT> *MJanofsky*: It was a daily saga that got many
flame wars going

May 31, 15:37:42 PDT> *Alex*: teck, if we had had a really major
trolling incident, do you have any power to address it in gabbly --- eg
i.p. blocking?

May 31, 15:37:44 PDT> *MJanofsky*: and loss of a few good users

May 31, 15:37:52 PDT> *Nancy W*: I always am torn about when to stop
giving people slack and the benefit of the doubt. That is when some
simple, clear community guidelines can be useful. They help you draw the
line.

May 31, 15:37:56 PDT> *MJanofsky*: Unfortunately, food is ready!

May 31, 15:37:56 PDT> *teck*: Alex: yes, we have the means to block the
IP...

May 31, 15:37:58 PDT> *Nancy W*: Tech soup has guidelines, no?

May 31, 15:38:05 PDT> *MJanofsky*: Nancy- I would love to chat w/ u offline

May 31, 15:38:17 PDT> *Nancy W*: (food and unfortunate - words that
don't go together)

May 31, 15:38:18 PDT> *Nancy W*: ok

May 31, 15:38:19 PDT> *teck*: but we are also coming up with a feature
to allow users to ignore/mute anybody they want in a chat room

May 31, 15:38:25 PDT> *MJanofsky*: could you ping me with your info
MPJanofsky [at] gmail [com]

May 31, 15:38:32 PDT> *MJanofsky*: yeah, that was an odd sentence

May 31, 15:38:33 PDT> *Nancy W*: In old timely language, that would be
called a Bozo filter.

May 31, 15:38:35 PDT> *Scott M*: I've had the "lost good people" after a
conflict experience too.

May 31, 15:38:38 PDT> *teck*: if you take away the troller's audience,
the troller will probably stop doing it

May 31, 15:38:45 PDT> *Nancy W*: sure, Michael

May 31, 15:38:50 PDT> *MJanofsky*: anyway, talk to ya' all later

May 31, 15:39:25 PDT> *Nancy W*: So energy is an issue here

May 31, 15:39:27 PDT> *Nancy W*: As is control

May 31, 15:39:35 PDT> *teck*: we hate to censor chatrooms and we try to
avoid having to be the judge of what should or should not be mentioned
in a chat room... we like to leave that power to the user

May 31, 15:39:44 PDT> *Nancy W*: People seeking attention want to or
cause energy to be drawn to them. So ignoring them is one tactice, for sure.

May 31, 15:39:44 PDT> *Alex*: I feel pretty strongly that we should
always have a really really really high bar to actually asking anyone to
pipe down, let alone leave

May 31, 15:39:56 PDT> *Alex*: b/c so many other people can get turned
off by the appearance of censorship

May 31, 15:40:04 PDT> *Nancy W*: teck, I agree. Censoring is at the
bottom of my list of actions. But sometimes I have to.

May 31, 15:40:09 PDT> *Alex*: on the other hand, somebody messing up the
group dynamic can turn alot of people off oto

May 31, 15:40:17 PDT> *Scott M*: It can be awkward if there is not back
channel to organize the group ignoring.

May 31, 15:40:21 PDT> *Nancy W*: On an onlnie cmomunity that I was
working with we had a user who was spoofing other people. Had to ban them.

May 31, 15:40:37 PDT> *Nancy W*: Scott, this is where we used IM with
oru key community leaders.

May 31, 15:40:56 PDT> *Scott M*: Ah, but what about the community at large?

May 31, 15:41:00 PDT> *teck*: true... one other way that's been used in
multi-player games and has been quite successful is to have the
community vote on booting people

May 31, 15:41:00 PDT> *Nancy W*: Their practice was to welcome everyone.
When we spotted a new ID from the spoofer, we alerted the leaders and
asked them NOT to welcome the spoofed.

May 31, 15:41:24 PDT> *Alex*: it's nice to have IM or another way to
ping people 1-on-1

May 31, 15:41:26 PDT> *Nancy W*: Scott, a community at large can have a
back channel, no?

May 31, 15:41:38 PDT> *Scott M*: They can, but don't always.

May 31, 15:41:46 PDT> *Nancy W*: That's why I like boards with presence
indicators and IM tools. really helps me from a facilitation perspective

May 31, 15:41:46 PDT> *Alex*: if only to keep people from using the chat
room to say things like, hey Nancy, we love your bee!

May 31, 15:42:03 PDT> *Scott M*: And even then, I;ve noticed some folks
like to publicly call attention...

May 31, 15:42:13 PDT> *Scott M*: to the fact we are to ignore so-and-so.

May 31, 15:42:28 PDT> *Nancy W*: :: nodding in recognition of that one ::

May 31, 15:43:36 PDT> *teck*: or just have the system say it for the
community... indicating how many people have explicitly ignored the person

May 31, 15:43:37 PDT> *Nancy W*: What I notice is that online one person
can make disporportionately more waves than one person usually can offline

May 31, 15:44:02 PDT> *Eric Leland*: yep, there is more power there

May 31, 15:44:02 PDT> *Scott M*: Yup.. Wider audience. More of a chance
for people to misread intent.

May 31, 15:44:04 PDT> *Nancy W*: that's a good observation, teck. When
is a machine mediated response useful and when do we need the human touch?

May 31, 15:44:06 PDT> *Scott M*: IMHO

May 31, 15:44:25 PDT> *Nancy W*: So power. That wonderful word. how do
we work with power as facilitators?

May 31, 15:44:54 PDT> *Scott M*: I work with it lightly.

May 31, 15:45:05 PDT> *Eric Leland*: I try to separate power from force.

May 31, 15:45:12 PDT> *Scott M*: I don't want my community to become
dependent upon me to arbitrate everytyhing.

May 31, 15:45:19 PDT> *Eric Leland*: you earn power from your audience

May 31, 15:45:54 PDT> *Nancy W*: Wise men typing.

May 31, 15:46:02 PDT> *Scott M*: Eric, I agree. I consider that the
athoritative vs authoritarian way.

May 31, 15:46:05 PDT> *Alex*: I think the most important thing is to be
aware of power dynamics -- I get really frustrated when faciliators (or
for that matter, participants) in a discussion seem to operate without
any filter for the impact of their authority/power

May 31, 15:46:19 PDT> *Nancy W*: Wise woman typing. :-)

May 31, 15:46:28 PDT> *Scott M*: ::nodding::

May 31, 15:46:47 PDT> *Eric Leland*: yep, although when I was a newbie
chatter...

May 31, 15:46:47 PDT> *Alex*: if I can make a massive generalization
that I'm going to regret leaving in a transcript for all eternity

May 31, 15:47:11 PDT> *Nancy W*: (eternity!!!)

May 31, 15:47:12 PDT> *Eric Leland*: it was too easy to consider online
conversations fake, not impactful, and thus not invest in my words.

May 31, 15:47:20 PDT> *Alex*: one thing I think is tough for
lefties/social change folks, is that because we all think we "get it",
we let ourselves off the hook too easily re: impact of our own
personal/social power on others

May 31, 15:47:32 PDT> *Nancy W*: mmmmm, yeah

May 31, 15:47:37 PDT> *Alex*: I tend to notice it as a woman in events
with a lot of men

May 31, 15:47:48 PDT> *Alex*: but I'll bet I do the same damn thing in
terms of my race/class privilege

May 31, 15:48:04 PDT> *Nancy W*: There are intercultural implications as
well. when we can touch across the world in one tiny online space.

May 31, 15:48:11 PDT> *Nancy W*: we ignore power at our risk. But
sometimes online we don't see it until it knocks us off our center. How
do we anticipate issues around power?

May 31, 15:48:18 PDT> *Eric Leland*: I notice it as a man among men too

May 31, 15:48:41 PDT> *Alex*: actually, one thing is to go back to your
exercise of imagining the circle

May 31, 15:48:54 PDT> *Alex*: how would we be interacting in this space
if we imagined the 25 silent others as white guy north americans?

May 31, 15:49:24 PDT> *Scott M*: What, you mean you aren't? *g*

May 31, 15:49:25 PDT> *Alex*: how would we be interacting if we thought
a lot of those folks were joining us from the developing world, or were
folks for whom english is a 2nd language?

May 31, 15:49:35 PDT> *Alex*: 2 out of 3

May 31, 15:49:51 PDT> *Alex*: actually, Scott makes an interesting point

May 31, 15:49:52 PDT> *Scott M*: (by that I mean, my experience is
amazing how many people assume themselves when interacting online)

May 31, 15:49:52 PDT> *Eric Leland*: anticipating issues around power -
people want to be heard, I like to avoid the sense that we are cutting
someone off, but rather moving on, or incorporating the thought elsewhere

May 31, 15:50:07 PDT> *Alex*: people often assume I'm male, b/c I go by
"Alex" in online chats etc

May 31, 15:50:27 PDT> *Scott M*: I admit, I assumed that until Nancy
made her comment.

May 31, 15:51:14 PDT> *Nancy W*: If I type fast, I can exert power here
in the chat. Till you choose to ignore me and leave! :-)

May 31, 15:51:30 PDT> *Nancy W*: So ooh, that raises the issue of
identity and how that impacts our interaction.

May 31, 15:51:41 PDT> *Nancy W*: (themale/female thing)

May 31, 15:51:49 PDT> *TuesdayGutz*: hi i just came back to the chat
session, what are guys talkin about now?

May 31, 15:51:51 PDT> *Alex*: I guess you missed me asking Nancy to be
my labour coach!

May 31, 15:52:02 PDT> *Scott M*: And the race/religion/economic thing.

May 31, 15:52:04 PDT> *Nancy W*: We're talking about power, facilitation
and all sorts of good things, Tuesday

May 31, 15:52:10 PDT> *TuesdayGutz*: thanks nancy

May 31, 15:52:22 PDT> *TuesdayGutz*: ah yes an issue on identity

May 31, 15:52:41 PDT> *Nancy W*: Here some of us are really anonymous.

May 31, 15:52:43 PDT> *Scott M*: Alex, I did. Came in after that.

May 31, 15:52:51 PDT> *Nancy W*: Others have names that give some clues
(even if erroneous)

May 31, 15:53:05 PDT> *Nancy W*: In fact Enoch Choi is the only name I
see as a full name.

May 31, 15:53:13 PDT> *Eric Leland*: nope

May 31, 15:53:18 PDT> *Scott M*: I've found it interesting who and how
many chose between ream name, handle and leave the gabber###

May 31, 15:53:21 PDT> *Nancy W*: Oh, Eric, sorry!

May 31, 15:53:24 PDT> *Eric Leland*: :)

May 31, 15:53:27 PDT> *Nancy W*: Crappy scanning on my part!

May 31, 15:53:52 PDT> *Nancy W*: Look at the names. Any of them make you
curious about who they are? Does it matter in this context?

May 31, 15:54:02 PDT> *Alex*: the name thing is funny

May 31, 15:54:10 PDT> *Alex*: a couple of people have asked if I'm "Alex
Samuel"

May 31, 15:54:17 PDT> *Alex*: which made me think I should have used my
full name

May 31, 15:54:23 PDT> *Corey*: I just don't include my last name because
it's too long

May 31, 15:54:24 PDT> *Alex*: but it seems unduly formal

May 31, 15:54:27 PDT> *Nancy W*: Or not. Anonymity has value in some
settings.

May 31, 15:54:34 PDT> *Eric Leland*: I like chats because I can more
easily leave identity behind. But then this does affect my drive to
build community. Eventually I want to know people in the chat.

May 31, 15:54:38 PDT> *CatSilvestre*: i was thinking that it would be
cool if your name could be hyperlinked to your website

May 31, 15:54:49 PDT> *Alex*: that WOULD be cool

May 31, 15:54:51 PDT> *Nancy W*: There is a tool, blogchat, that does that

May 31, 15:54:53 PDT> *TuesdayGutz*: Im just wondering if everyone here
is already an expert in the nonprofit sector? or are there newbies like me?

May 31, 15:54:55 PDT> *Corey*: Pudhorodsky would take up half of my
character space in the chat window

May 31, 15:55:04 PDT> *Nancy W*: :-)

May 31, 15:55:11 PDT> *Scott M*: I'd consider myself a newbie in
non-profits.

May 31, 15:55:13 PDT> *Alex*: one thing that is neat about Gabbly is
that when someone types an URL here, and people click on it, the new
browser window opens with a gabbly window

May 31, 15:55:14 PDT> *Nancy W*: Good question, Tuesday? Are we newbies
all or varied experience?

May 31, 15:55:21 PDT> *CatSilvestre*: anyone from gabbly present?

May 31, 15:55:26 PDT> *Alex*: so when Nancy sent us to that music site a
bunch of us found one another there, too

May 31, 15:55:29 PDT> *Nancy W*: So you could follow and exploresites
together. Cool.

May 31, 15:55:37 PDT> *Alex*: Teck was here earlier

May 31, 15:55:37 PDT> *Nancy W*: Oh. Cool beans!

May 31, 15:55:45 PDT> *Nancy W*: pinging teck!

May 31, 15:55:59 PDT> *Alex*: I guess there are other chatters in the sea

May 31, 15:56:22 PDT> *teck*: i'm still here :)

May 31, 15:56:29 PDT> *teck*: was away for a bit

May 31, 15:56:29 PDT> *Nancy W*: Cat was looking for you.

May 31, 15:56:41 PDT> *Scott M*: (probably had 6 windows open)

May 31, 15:56:44 PDT> *Nancy W*: Cat, did you have a Gabbly question?

May 31, 15:56:45 PDT> *Nancy W*: (grin)

May 31, 15:56:52 PDT> *Corey*: one trick I found with Gabbly, if you put
in the following address:
http://www.gabbly.com/http://netsquared.org/remote you will get a window
you can resize rather than the static one here

May 31, 15:56:59 PDT> *Scott M*: Or does gabbly have a panopticon?

May 31, 15:57:11 PDT> *teck*: but you will also join the chat twice

May 31, 15:57:15 PDT> *Corey*: makes it easier to read comments

May 31, 15:57:20 PDT> *Corey*: I noticed that

May 31, 15:57:22 PDT> *teck*: one in the floating window and one in the
embedded one

May 31, 15:57:22 PDT> *Nancy W*: Ah, so double the personality. Double
the fun

May 31, 15:57:35 PDT> *Nancy W*: If I'm really paying attention to a
chat, I like a big screen.

May 31, 15:57:40 PDT> *CatSilvestre*: not a question per se, but was
wondering how much can be done with it. for instance, thought it would
be cool to be able to hyperlink screennames

May 31, 15:57:46 PDT> *Nancy W*: (I hate really small screens when there
are more than 2 people)

May 31, 15:58:01 PDT> *Nancy W*: Cat, I have a chat tool on my site that
allows people to hpyerlink screen names.

May 31, 15:58:16 PDT> *Nancy W*: But the interface is not so obvious, so
people don't seem to use the feature much.

May 31, 15:58:23 PDT> *teck*: CatSilvestre: yes it is possible and will
be cool... that's in our plans

May 31, 15:58:34 PDT> *CatSilvestre*: this is my first experience with
this particular program, and i have already recommended it to our it crew

May 31, 15:58:38 PDT> *Corey*: do we have Edward with us yet for the 4
pm session?

May 31, 15:58:40 PDT> *Nancy W*: I flipped back

May 31, 15:58:46 PDT> *Nancy W*: Ah, we are ending near our hour

May 31, 15:58:52 PDT> *Nancy W*: How about one more round of JUST THREE
WORDS

May 31, 15:58:56 PDT> *CatSilvestre*: especially as user feedback
becomes more important in shaping our new projects

May 31, 15:59:02 PDT> *Nancy W*: What are three words that describe
NETSQUARED?

May 31, 15:59:23 PDT> *Corey*: cooperate, community, cool

May 31, 15:59:49 PDT> *teck*: CatSilvestre: we love and encourage
feedback, pls do post to our forums

May 31, 16:00:02 PDT> *Nancy W*: emerging with gusto

May 31, 16:00:21 PDT> *Scott M*: jealous of y'all

May 31, 16:00:21 PDT> *Nancy W*: thanks for chatting!

May 31, 16:00:34 PDT> *Nancy W*: waving from Seattle

May 31, 16:00:36 PDT> *teck*: progressive, smart, effective

May 31, 16:00:41 PDT> *teck*: thanks Nancy!