May 30, 14:01:43 PDT> Liz Lawley: So, I'm not sure if I get "introduced," or if I'm just supposed to jump in...

May 30, 14:02:01 PDT> Liz Lawley: I've never done a conference presentation via a chat system before!

May 30, 14:02:36 PDT> Liz Lawley: OK, the deafening silence leads me to believe that I'm on my own.

May 30, 14:02:48 PDT> Alex: Sorry Liz

May 30, 14:02:48 PDT> Tuesday Gutz: welcome liz!

May 30, 14:02:48 PDT> Alex: crossed wires

May 30, 14:02:51 PDT> gillo: welcome!

May 30, 14:02:55 PDT> smokinggoat: Hi Liz!

May 30, 14:03:00 PDT> Neville: well you are doing fine, we can all hear at the back here. :)

May 30, 14:03:16 PDT> Liz Lawley: So...bear with me, because I only found out at 9am today that I was going to be doing this. That means I don't have anything formal prepared, there are no supplementary web resources, etc.

May 30, 14:03:20 PDT> Alex: Liz, we're hoping you could tell us a little about the Microsoft program, and also about your own experience

May 30, 14:03:31 PDT> Alex: crossing back & forth between academia & real-world research

May 30, 14:03:50 PDT> Liz Lawley: Okay, let me start with some context. I'm an associate professor at

May 30, 14:03:52 PDT> Liz Lawley: Rochester INstitute of Technology in Rochester, NY, in the information technology dept.

May 30, 14:04:31 PDT> Liz Lawley: I also run the RIT lab for social computing, which I founded 1.5 years ago.

May 30, 14:04:31 PDT> Liz Lawley: But since last July, I've been a visiting researcher at Microsoft Research in Redmond, WA...I'm on sabbatical from RIT, but will be returning to teaching this fall.

May 30, 14:05:02 PDT> Liz Lawley: Which means I have a pretty good sense of both academic and industry research, and the extent to which research groups are willing and/or able to work with non profits.

May 30, 14:06:08 PDT> Liz Lawley: As a professor, I've worked a lot with local non-profits. I teach classes where students build web sites, and it's better for them if there's a real-world client involved.

May 30, 14:06:34 PDT> Liz Lawley: So we've worked with lots of organizations building small web sites, prototypes of web-based apps, databases, etc.

May 30, 14:06:35 PDT> Liz Lawley: Here at MSR, I've seen colleagues working with a variety of organizations, often as testbeds for innovative new technologies.

May 30, 14:07:06 PDT> Liz Lawley: It's clear to me that many organizations aren't aware of the potential for getting technology consulting from academia, and the ones that are often aren't aware of the caveats that go with that.

May 30, 14:07:57 PDT> Liz Lawley: The good news is, there are a lot of people in both contexts who really would like to be able to help your organizations out if possible. The bad news is you can't treat this help the way you would a paid contractor--you need to think of it

May 30, 14:07:58 PDT> Liz Lawley: as exploratory in many ways.

May 30, 14:08:37 PDT> Eric: What are some examples of the innovative projects you mentioned?

May 30, 14:08:52 PDT> Liz Lawley: Students can drop the ball, research groups can lose funding, etc. So if you go in without expecting that you'll get all your needs taken care of, you can end up with a lot of interesting and helpful tech.

May 30, 14:09:01 PDT> Liz Lawley: I don't want to do all the typing here, though. Specific questions/topics y'all would like me to address?

May 30, 14:09:01 PDT> Liz Lawley: ah. thank you :)

May 30, 14:09:20 PDT> Ian Wilker, NRDC: very interesting Liz.

May 30, 14:09:42 PDT> Liz Lawley: I've had students work with small organizations in our geographic area--face-to-face contact tends to be important in keeping thins on track, and having students be able to visit and talk with people is really useful.

May 30, 14:09:48 PDT> Emily: what do you mean by tech consulting by academia?

May 30, 14:10:19 PDT> Liz Lawley: We've had students work with shelters, with schools in underfunded areas,

May 30, 14:10:38 PDT> Liz Lawley: So, much of this comes out of people with non-profits cultivating relationships with professors at our university...

May 30, 14:10:41 PDT> Ian Wilker, NRDC: In the six-month web2 tech-immersion course I've put myself through, I've often felt that the tech world's spirit is often wonderfully compatible with nonprofit mission

May 30, 14:11:07 PDT> Eric: are the students employing social web or other innovative/emerging technologies in these projects to successful ends?

May 30, 14:11:07 PDT> Liz Lawley: I'll have someone from an organization approach me with questions about how their organization could use blogs or wikis, for example...

May 30, 14:11:30 PDT> Liz Lawley: and when it looks likea good fit, I'll try to use their specific needs as a class project for my students. Put several teams together to build a prototype, for example, which gives the group something to start from.

May 30, 14:12:07 PDT> Emily: that's a good idea

May 30, 14:12:07 PDT> Liz Lawley: Eric, to varying degrees. Often the organization has some resistance to cutting-edge technologies, and is really looking for something basic.

May 30, 14:12:19 PDT> Liz Lawley: But in many cases, it's not because my students don't want to use the more innovative tools.

May 30, 14:13:04 PDT> Liz Lawley: As with so many things, this is very much about personal networking. Most schools and industry labs don't have a formal outreach program to non-profits. The partnerships come about because someone with the non profit has reached out to a researcher

May 30, 14:13:39 PDT> Liz Lawley: You need to think of research and student time in the same way you think about money, really. Who's got skilled time they could give you, and how can you build a relationship with them.

May 30, 14:13:50 PDT> Emily: how do you think this can be improved?

May 30, 14:13:56 PDT> Tuesday Gutz: how do u think can we address this void/gap?

May 30, 14:14:00 PDT> Ian Wilker, NRDC: Liz: Can you think of any big nonprofits who've partnered with a major industry or academic lab?

May 30, 14:14:44 PDT> Liz Lawley: Well, as one example, MentorNet has worked with Microsoft Research

May 30, 14:15:24 PDT> Liz Lawley: MSR is doing more and more with funding work related to "digital inclusion," which will open more opportunities for non-profits.

May 30, 14:16:06 PDT> Liz Lawley: NSF is increasingly interested in implementation projects these days, which means researchers who want NSF funding are looking for real-world partners...so RIT is working with places like the Rochester School for the Deaf

May 30, 14:17:17 PDT> Liz Lawley: Again, though, those kinds of partnerships follow from key players in non-profits reaching out to researchers.

May 30, 14:17:31 PDT> Tuesday Gutz: How do you think non-profits based in developing countries be able to be part of this "digital inclusion"?

May 30, 14:17:46 PDT> Emily: who are the key players?

May 30, 14:18:23 PDT> Ian Wilker, NRDC: right thanks

May 30, 14:18:28 PDT> Liz Lawley: On a large scale, key players are MSR (one of the largest), IBM, PARC

May 30, 14:18:43 PDT> Emily: I meant of nonprofits

May 30, 14:18:58 PDT> Liz Lawley: Not many, but it's not for lack of potential partners in industry/academia.

May 30, 14:19:41 PDT> Liz Lawley: This is mostly unrealized potential, unfortunately.

May 30, 14:20:05 PDT> Liz Lawley: Academics/researchers often won't think to go out and identify the right partners, but if one presents itself they'll take advantage of that .

May 30, 14:20:25 PDT> Emily: if someone in academia wanted to contact someone at a nonprofit for their students to do work for them, who should they contact?

May 30, 14:21:12 PDT> Liz Lawley: You'll need to take a look at which institutions in your area are teaching an applied technology curriculum--this could be in a business school, or a computing program.

May 30, 14:21:33 PDT> Liz Lawley: Contact the department chair to find out who's teaching courses in the area, and to ask if they're interested in working with a "real world" client.

May 30, 14:21:49 PDT> Liz Lawley: Many of my referrals come through my department chair. Others come from my connections in the community.

May 30, 14:22:29 PDT> Liz Lawley: You can also go at it from a more proactive way--identify the funding sources. MSR has regular grant programs, as do many other companies and govt agencies.

May 30, 14:22:31 PDT> Eric: It would be great to find a resource for culling through RFPs from universities that require nonprofits partners for implementation, is there anything like this, or is is really just about individual orgs networking with potential university partners

May 30, 14:23:05 PDT> Liz Lawley: For grants that require a real-world implementation, you can initiate contact with a researcher directly who seems to be doing work in the field (that requires having someone do the research legwork to find out wh's working on what)...

May 30, 14:23:16 PDT> Liz Lawley: then contact them to see if they're interested in a collaborative grant application.

May 30, 14:23:45 PDT> Liz Lawley: Researchers are always looking for external funding opportunities, and if you present them with an opportunity they're likely to want to follow up.

May 30, 14:23:57 PDT> Ian Wilker, NRDC: wish-list idea: a mechanical turk style system that a nonprofit could partner with an applied-tech school: nonprofit posts a project they need help on; students with required skill set can volunteer themselves.

May 30, 14:24:09 PDT> Liz Lawley: i've got a colleague at rit working on just such a system. :)

May 30, 14:24:21 PDT> Ian Wilker, NRDC: really?

May 30, 14:24:31 PDT> Eric: How do you manage expectations with nonprofit clients? I imagine that the students are on a more fixed time frame (the duration of their class), while an organization might have changing abilities to commit to projects throughout the life of the

May 30, 14:24:33 PDT> Eric: project

May 30, 14:24:37 PDT> Liz Lawley: yes. :) i need to follow up with her to see where that stands.

May 30, 14:25:10 PDT> Liz Lawley: eric, yes. expectations are key.

May 30, 14:25:30 PDT> Ian Wilker, NRDC: appeals to me because practically speaking I couldn't supervise a program, but I'd love to be able to go through a one-time setup process and then be able to ask for help as needed.

May 30, 14:25:38 PDT> Liz Lawley: i explain to groups we work with that there are a few things we can do. we can build a prototype so that they can spec out a "real" system to vendor more accurately

May 30, 14:25:53 PDT> Liz Lawley: we can, as ian says, help set up the infrastructure.

May 30, 14:26:23 PDT> Liz Lawley: we can do design work--skinning a site and offering a range of interface options. (i'll often have teams "battle" each other with the client selecting the winner--who then automatically get an A)

May 30, 14:26:35 PDT> Ian Wilker, NRDC: that's great!

May 30, 14:27:00 PDT> Eric: Do you build on top of tools out there for your implementations, for example open source cms tools?

May 30, 14:27:18 PDT> Liz Lawley: absolutely. that's our preference.

May 30, 14:27:22 PDT> Liz Lawley: (at least when i have my RIT hat on, it is. :)

May 30, 14:28:36 PDT> Ian Wilker, NRDC: I love the idea of being able to give people a participatory, "volunteer your skills" option of helping a nonprofit achieve its goals.

May 30, 14:29:11 PDT> Liz Lawley: yeah. i'm searching through the archives of my colleague's blog to see if i can find her posts about that project...

May 30, 14:29:43 PDT> Eric: I wonder if these applied technology programs could find a strong partner in someone like the Taproot foundation, for vetting clients and getting solid projects going, while fulfilling the needs of the university programs?

May 30, 14:29:53 PDT> Ian Wilker, NRDC: The old-school nonprofit pitch to potential constituents: (a) send an email to your Congressperson, (b) write us a check.

May 30, 14:30:15 PDT> Ian Wilker, NRDC: There need to be many, many more opportunities for participation than those two standbys.

May 30, 14:30:31 PDT> Liz Lawley: looks like it stalled. will touch base with her soon to see if she wants to try to revive it when i get back to rit. it would make a good project for our lab.

May 30, 14:30:35 PDT> gillo: self-organising

May 30, 14:31:24 PDT> Liz Lawley: here's a little bit about her thoughts on it: http://weez.oyzon.com/index.php?/weezblogtemplates/more_to_ignore/ and http://weez.oyzon.com/index.php?/weezblogtemplates/ignore_this/

May 30, 14:32:32 PDT> Liz Lawley: One of the things we know about today's college students is that they desperately want to "make a difference"--finding a way to let them do this *through* their academic work is a powerful pitch.

May 30, 14:32:56 PDT> Liz Lawley: As an undergrad, i worked at a pre-K program for disadvantaged families, and got psych credit for it.

May 30, 14:33:23 PDT> Liz Lawley: If you can identify learning opportunities that students could legitimately earn credit for, you could build some great partnerships with schools.

May 30, 14:33:33 PDT> Ian Wilker, NRDC: thanks Liz!

May 30, 14:33:53 PDT> Liz Lawley: It has to be more than simply "come fix our computers"--you need to give them something beyond tech support.

May 30, 14:34:23 PDT> gabber41: This sounds very interesting! I'm curious to see if RIT is able to do something like this. My concern would be managing the expectations of the students as well as the npos.

May 30, 14:34:28 PDT> Liz Lawley: but things like designing a database for managing a complex process, or working on an interface that works for your diverse users, etc...those are all the kinds of projects that could result in great partnerships.

May 30, 14:35:04 PDT> Liz Lawley: 41, you're right. it has to be a real partnership between the professor and the non-profit so that a clear msg gets communicated.

May 30, 14:35:34 PDT> Karen: I'm joining this a little late, but do you have examples of where this is succesful?

May 30, 14:35:51 PDT> Liz Lawley: But it's not just universities. It's worth keeping an eye on things like MSR's RFPs. Those will increasingly require partnerships between researchers and those doing the real outreach.

May 30, 14:36:42 PDT> Liz Lawley: unfortunately, i don't have urls for the things that we've done recently at rit--part of the problem with my late notice regarding this "talk" :(

May 30, 14:36:55 PDT> Liz Lawley: am doing some searches right now to try to find examples.

May 30, 14:36:56 PDT> Ian Wilker, NRDC: I'm going to need to check out, but thank you Liz -- this has given me another big idea to start rounding out... Look forward to coming back to read the transcript, and if anyone wants to contact me I'm at iwilker@nrdc.org.

May 30, 14:37:42 PDT> evonne: I would love to hear from other NGOs on this....

May 30, 14:38:01 PDT> Liz Lawley: here's a nice small local example from rit: http://www.ywcarochester.org/index.php?id=alliance

May 30, 14:38:53 PDT> evonne: Thank you Liz. Good example.

May 30, 14:39:35 PDT> Karen: Thanks Liz! Were you involved in finding the NPOs to do this? If so, how did you locate them and what was the screening process like?

May 30, 14:40:00 PDT> evonne: I am crafting an NGO/civic/commerce/media partnering project and we're finding we need much more flexibility, especially when working with advisors and interns from academic institutions.

May 30, 14:40:07 PDT> Liz Lawley: I've done this with my web design class in the past, but primarily with groups that have contacted me directly. My colleague, Elouise Oyzon, does this more frequently now with her new media team project course.

May 30, 14:40:20 PDT> Liz Lawley: I'm not sure what the process for selection is...looking to see if she's written about it.

May 30, 14:41:25 PDT> Liz Lawley: ah, here's a list of some recent projects (last fall): http://it.rit.edu/~ero/NMTP/2005/archives/discussions/

May 30, 14:41:26 PDT> Karen: Evonne, can you elaborate a little? I'm not clear on what you mean. Is it not flexible compared to who you normally work with?

May 30, 14:42:03 PDT> Liz Lawley: hi, kaliya :)

May 30, 14:42:27 PDT> Liz Lawley: more here, too: http://it.rit.edu/~ero/NMTP/2005/archives/projects/

May 30, 14:42:27 PDT> Kaliya: Hi LIz

May 30, 14:42:27 PDT> Kaliya: where are you?

May 30, 14:42:32 PDT> Kaliya: How was the Social Software Summit

May 30, 14:42:56 PDT> Liz Lawley: <---coming to you LIVE from Redmond, Washington :)

May 30, 14:43:08 PDT> Karen: Thanks Liz for all these links! How do the NPOS hear of you? Is it word of mouth?

May 30, 14:43:46 PDT> Liz Lawley: For those projects, yes. The challenge is, indeed, how to create a better way to get the word out. There's clearly a need for a clearinghouse of some kind.

May 30, 14:45:01 PDT> evonne: Our advisors have limited time to assist and timing our project meetings is always a challenge. We struggle to find time that works for both Bangkok and LA while providing enough tools and collaborative workspaces to get the job done.

May 30, 14:45:14 PDT> Karen: I should of introduced myself earlier but I'm new to this chatting thing and didin't want to miss the conversation flow. I manage MM, Compuemntor's volunteer matching program and we run into the issue of having more volunteers than NPos.

May 30, 14:45:17 PDT> evonne: Lack of time and access, common hurdles in many endeavors.

May 30, 14:45:22 PDT> Eric: Funny I was just talking about building a clearinghouse for RFPs at the nonprofit technology conference, would be great to have such a place.

May 30, 14:45:57 PDT> Liz Lawley: Karen, could MM be used for these kinds of academic opportunities, too?

May 30, 14:46:12 PDT> Karen: Possibly...

May 30, 14:46:52 PDT> Karen: Evonne,

May 30, 14:48:04 PDT> Karen: Evonne--- sorry about that. thanks for the clarification. I can only imagine trying to coordinate over different time zones. etc..

May 30, 14:48:05 PDT> Liz Lawley: No matter how many systems we build, however, personal connections are always important. Look for researchers and teachers working in areas that are relevant to your organizations, and reach out to them.

May 30, 14:48:19 PDT> Liz Lawley: Often they can connect you with their colleagues in a way that's more likely to lead to a good relationship.

May 30, 14:48:39 PDT> evonne: We have far more luck when we meet with people face to face; there's a stronger bond created and those volunteers tend to stay more involved longterm.

May 30, 14:48:59 PDT> Liz Lawley: Yes. That's why at RIT we really limit most of our work of this sort to local organizations.

May 30, 14:49:00 PDT> evonne: To keep those relationships building we use virtual platforms like Omidyar Network and Second Life

May 30, 14:49:11 PDT> Liz Lawley: It's a lot harder for the students to bail when they've met people f2f

May 30, 14:49:17 PDT> Karen: Right on Liz and Evonne. We found the same thing here as well.

May 30, 14:49:41 PDT> Liz Lawley: It's also easier to build the relationship with local researchers. Call them up, make plans to have lunch, give them a tour of your facility.

May 30, 14:49:49 PDT> Liz Lawley: It's far more compelling than an email with a link to your web site.

May 30, 14:50:00 PDT> Karen: Evonne - so you meet once and then maintain the relationship virtually?

May 30, 14:50:22 PDT> Liz Lawley: And if you add to that an awareness of the growing need for external grants to have implementation testbeds, you've got a recipe for a long term partnership.

May 30, 14:50:56 PDT> evonne: I'm in the middle, bridging local and global. Reaching out to start new programs here in LA while we build globally. Most of our advisors are people I've sat down with once or maybe twice, and we continue conversations online. We'll try skype next

May 30, 14:52:14 PDT> Tuesday Gutz: all the non-profit orgs youre talking about are also based in the US? have you had any projects that involved non-profits overseas and how it worked with your students?

May 30, 14:53:01 PDT> Liz Lawley: No. For the kind of time frame that our courses involve (10 week quarters), it's not realistic. That's where being local really helps.

May 30, 14:53:32 PDT> Liz Lawley: But there's lots of potential for grant work in these areas. The MSR Digitial Inclusion program is a great example. http://research.microsoft.com/ur/us/digincl/default.aspx

May 30, 14:53:54 PDT> Liz Lawley: researchers have to partner with overseas npos for those opportunities.

May 30, 14:54:18 PDT> Liz Lawley: (take a look at the list of awards, linked on the right-hand side)

May 30, 14:54:25 PDT> evonne: Very cool digital inclusion link. As an NGO we do bridgebuilding, projects that connect countries thru direct building, access and media arts.

May 30, 14:55:31 PDT> Liz Lawley: It's worth having someone in your organization subscribe to one of the many grant opportunity databases/notification systems. If you can identify appropriate funding activities, you'll have a better chance of getting academia to partner with you.

May 30, 14:56:54 PDT> Liz Lawley: Ok, my time is up.

May 30, 14:57:05 PDT> Liz Lawley: Sorry not to have had more prepared in the way of examples and links.

May 30, 14:57:05 PDT> evonne: Those are wonderful project links Liz. Thank you!

May 30, 14:57:16 PDT> Eric: Thanks for the conversation Liz!

May 30, 14:57:19 PDT> Karen: Thanks Liz!

May 30, 14:57:30 PDT> Liz Lawley: Feel free to contact me directly...ell@mail.rit.edu

May 30, 14:57:54 PDT> Liz Lawley: and here's the official web site: http://www.it.rit.edu/~ell/

May 30, 14:57:58 PDT> Liz Lawley: Thanks everyone!

May 30, 15:00:15 PDT> Stephen NZ: Hello everyone from Auckland New Zealand

May 30, 15:00:22 PDT> Eric: Thanks everyone for participating. We will have a few minutes before we begin our next session scheduled for 3PM.