May 31, 13:03:48 PDT> *Boris*: Welcome to Open Source and your Non Profit

May 31, 13:04:23 PDT> *Boris*: Thanks for the intro -- I'm a single "R"
Boris most of the time

May 31, 13:04:39 PDT> *evonne*: Unless you're feeling extra rrrrandy?

May 31, 13:04:42 PDT> *MJanofsky*: (sorry about that!)

May 31, 13:04:47 PDT> *evonne*: sorry, couldn't resist. welcome boris!

May 31, 13:04:57 PDT> *Boris*: Aside from running Bryght, I'm also one
of the lead evangelists for Drupal

May 31, 13:05:08 PDT> *Boris*: And recently applied to be a member of
the Jabber Software Foundation

May 31, 13:05:22 PDT> *MJanofsky*: So, Boris, do you have a favorite
open source app or tool that you use with NP orgs?

May 31, 13:05:45 PDT> *Boris*: Well, for starters I wanted to talk more
about some of the philosophical things around open source

May 31, 13:05:55 PDT> *MJanofsky*: ok

May 31, 13:06:27 PDT> *Boris*: So, does everyone in the room here have a
fairly good understanding of what the term open source means?

May 31, 13:07:07 PDT> *Boris*: Some people think it means "cool!
software I don't have to pay license fees for!"

May 31, 13:07:25 PDT> *Boris*: But of course, in the NP world, many
"commercial" software packages are also available at relatively lower costs

May 31, 13:08:12 PDT> *Boris*: Open source means that programmers can
look into the inner workings of a program, web application, etc.

May 31, 13:08:15 PDT> *Boris*: And change it if they want

May 31, 13:08:33 PDT> *Boris*: Since much use of software involves
customization, this can be very useful

May 31, 13:09:06 PDT> *Boris*: The real benefits come from when you have
many people working towards a common goal

May 31, 13:09:18 PDT> *Boris*: Which is very similar to how many non
profits operate

May 31, 13:09:29 PDT> *Boris*: /me pauses to breathe

May 31, 13:10:19 PDT> *Boris*: OK, that's a longish intro

May 31, 13:10:20 PDT> *evonne*: we have a good understanding but lack
the programming skills (or talented volunteers)

May 31, 13:10:32 PDT> *evonne*: how do we find good developers to work with?

May 31, 13:10:38 PDT> *Boris*: evonne: gotcha, that is a common need

May 31, 13:10:52 PDT> *Boris*: well, each open source project has its
own way of working

May 31, 13:11:18 PDT> *Boris*: so, ideally, you can start by looking at
the project you are interested in working with

May 31, 13:11:28 PDT> *Boris*: and see if there are developers there
that would like to work with you

May 31, 13:11:38 PDT> *Boris*: there are often local user group meetings

May 31, 13:11:41 PDT> *evonne*: Is there a place to post and match up
with developers?

May 31, 13:12:05 PDT> *Boris*: no central place, per se

May 31, 13:12:07 PDT> *evonne*: on the drupal forms? i've spent a bit of
time on their site but after downloading the demo i was in over my head.

May 31, 13:12:17 PDT> *Boris*: although that is an interesting concept
in general

May 31, 13:12:44 PDT> *Boris*: encourage volunteer developer-ism as a
way of contributing to your non-profit of choice

May 31, 13:12:49 PDT> *evonne*: i've talked to a few people who know
drupal better than i, but none have found time/good space to develop
with us remotely. haven't found anyone local to work with.

May 31, 13:13:06 PDT> *Boris*: where are you based, evonne?

May 31, 13:13:13 PDT> *evonne*: would be extremely helpful! we have a
mentorship and internship program that could accomodate students too.
los angeles.

May 31, 13:13:36 PDT> *Boris*: mentorship and internship programs are
often a good match with colleges and universities

May 31, 13:13:36 PDT> *evonne*: we just haven't found the right match of
talent yet. we're clearer on what we want now (thanks to netsquared and
other resources).

May 31, 13:13:56 PDT> *Boris*: your average computer science student can
dig into the more technical bits for you

May 31, 13:14:03 PDT> *Boris*: as well as learn the specific needs of
your organization

May 31, 13:14:13 PDT> *evonne*: most of the volunteers we've found are
only microsoft-saavy, and we're on macs

May 31, 13:14:31 PDT> *evonne*: so it's been a challenge finding a good
volunteer to help us take on our web plan

May 31, 13:14:49 PDT> *Boris*: one of the things I spent some time
talking to Marnie Webb about was building an ecosystem of developers and
non-profit service providers

May 31, 13:14:54 PDT> *Boris*: this is also true of open source projects

May 31, 13:15:06 PDT> *Boris*: this is an interesting story I hear a
lot....a volunteer to take on the web plan

May 31, 13:15:24 PDT> *Boris*: this is where I veer from my open source
routes and like to talk about your website as a very important marketing
channel

May 31, 13:15:37 PDT> *Boris*: and it should get the same level of
support and professionalism as other channels

May 31, 13:16:05 PDT> *evonne*: i know Marnie, through Omidyar....and
yes, you're absolutely right there Boris.

May 31, 13:16:21 PDT> *Boris*: i.e. what will the return on investment
be in efficiency, meeting our mission statement if we invest in web channels

May 31, 13:16:33 PDT> *Boris*: and that's what your involvement in open
source needs to be as well

May 31, 13:16:52 PDT> *evonne*: it's integral to our development, and
right now it's a stumbling block to success. open source is essential
for us, as is our work in creative commons.

May 31, 13:16:57 PDT> *Boris*: that is, getting involved in open source
can meet both philosophical goals (this is a likeminded group of people
working on common goals)

May 31, 13:17:10 PDT> *MJanofsky*: Do any of our "lurkers" right now
have questions for Boris about "Open Source & Your Non-Profit"?

May 31, 13:17:13 PDT> *Boris*: as well as financial (by working together
on open software, we save money by pooling resources)

May 31, 13:18:59 PDT> *Boris*: I'll go back to your earlier question
about tools

May 31, 13:19:17 PDT> *Boris*: And talk a bit about where open source is
being used in non-profits

May 31, 13:19:56 PDT> *Boris*: So, Drupal is a tool for managing
websites, communities, and even building complex web apps

May 31, 13:20:05 PDT> *Boris*: Which has probably gotten enough coverage

May 31, 13:20:22 PDT> *Boris*: CivicSpace is a focused distribution that
has many built in components, and is built on top of Drupal

May 31, 13:20:26 PDT> *MJanofsky*: Yes, yesterday Drupal had most of an
hour, it was very interesting.

May 31, 13:20:43 PDT> *Boris*: If your organization is looking to
experiment with wikis, MediaWiki is a well known tool

May 31, 13:20:53 PDT> *Boris*: Wordpress is a great blogging package

May 31, 13:20:55 PDT> *Boris*: And in fact

May 31, 13:21:14 PDT> *MJanofsky*: (MediaWiki is used at wikipedia)

May 31, 13:21:14 PDT> *Boris*: Many non-profits could easily get started
on a web presence using a free site from Wordpress.com

May 31, 13:21:28 PDT> *Boris*: Same goes for most small businesses --
the best investment in a web presence could be nothing more than a blog

May 31, 13:21:39 PDT> *Boris*: Larger non-profits, with membership needs
and so on

May 31, 13:21:50 PDT> *Boris*: will want to start looking at management
and communication tools

May 31, 13:22:04 PDT> *Alex*: Boris, do you want to say something about
using drupal as a wiki?

May 31, 13:22:10 PDT> *Alex*: (or wiki substitute)

May 31, 13:22:21 PDT> *Boris*: What, is this the all Drupal all the time
channel? :P

May 31, 13:22:48 PDT> *Boris*: Drupal can also be configured to have
wiki-like editing capabilities

May 31, 13:23:12 PDT> *Boris*: And there is new functionality called
LiquidWiki that embeds MediaWiki functionality directly into Drupal

May 31, 13:23:30 PDT> *Alex*: now you tell me! cool.

May 31, 13:23:37 PDT> *Boris*: Which is currently in development, but
promises to add a much more traditional wiki experience directly in Drupal

May 31, 13:23:53 PDT> *Boris*: And the great part?

May 31, 13:23:55 PDT> *Alex*: do you have any thoughts about the kinds
of projects that benefit from a wiki vs those that could use a blog?

May 31, 13:23:59 PDT> *Boris*: Rather than re-inventing the wheel

May 31, 13:24:08 PDT> *Boris*: And re-doing wiki functionality from scratch

May 31, 13:24:34 PDT> *MJanofsky*: (Alex-can you meet me in the hallway
for a minute)

May 31, 13:24:34 PDT> *Boris*: it re-uses the open source MediaWiki text
shortcuts

May 31, 13:25:16 PDT> *Boris*: Use a wiki when you need to gather/edit
lots of documents and information among a large group of people

May 31, 13:25:48 PDT> *Boris*: Use a blog for an individual voice --
thoughts/messages from an organization or an individual attached to that
organization

May 31, 13:25:53 PDT> *Alex*: (MJ - sure)

May 31, 13:26:26 PDT> *Boris*: In working with non-profits, one thing
I've seen is the donation of old computer systems

May 31, 13:26:45 PDT> *MJanofsky*: Yes! Sometimes, way to old or too many

May 31, 13:26:49 PDT> *Boris*: Some times these cause more trouble than
they're worth

May 31, 13:27:13 PDT> *Boris*: Since there is not an army of tech savvy
geeks in every non profit

May 31, 13:27:22 PDT> *Boris*: The Linux User Groups in particular will
often donate time

May 31, 13:27:29 PDT> *Boris*: In order to get free operating systems up
and running

May 31, 13:27:41 PDT> *MJanofsky*: It's hard when you have a small
non-profit in an area with not a lot of tech people to get things going

May 31, 13:27:44 PDT> *Boris*: WHich make good general use machines --
print stations, Internet terminals, and so on

May 31, 13:27:49 PDT> *Boris*: There are always tech people around

May 31, 13:27:56 PDT> *Boris*: It is just often hard to connect with them

May 31, 13:28:01 PDT> *evonne*: aboslutely MJ and Boris.

May 31, 13:28:05 PDT> *ClareWhite*: do any of you have any tips for
getting volunteers up and running on a wiki who aren't very technical?

May 31, 13:28:10 PDT> *MJanofsky*: absolutely

May 31, 13:28:10 PDT> *Boris*: So, come to conferences like this to get
specific language on what you're looking for

May 31, 13:28:13 PDT> *Boris*: Networking

May 31, 13:28:28 PDT> *MJanofsky*: one of my favorite tools for old
machines to get them going is a Knoppix Linux live CD

May 31, 13:28:41 PDT> *Boris*: ClareWhite: sure

May 31, 13:28:45 PDT> *MJanofsky*: all you have to tell everyone to do
is boot up the machine and it's an INSTANT internet terminal

May 31, 13:28:50 PDT> *Boris*: Yes

May 31, 13:28:50 PDT> *evonne*: We used a wiki for our latest
interactive activism project and many of our volunteers have found the
wiki format too difficult to use on short notice.

May 31, 13:28:58 PDT> *MJanofsky*: (until you have time to make it
permanent)

May 31, 13:28:59 PDT> *Boris*: evonne -- can you tell us more?

May 31, 13:29:16 PDT> *Boris*: Mjan -- or not -- simply update the CD
images, and never worry about viruses or updates

May 31, 13:29:19 PDT> *Boris*: Simply reboot

May 31, 13:29:37 PDT> *MJanofsky*: true.

May 31, 13:29:49 PDT> *MJanofsky*: (that is the problem with adopting
windows)

May 31, 13:30:14 PDT> *MJanofsky*: Especially with users that are not
savvy with computers

May 31, 13:30:20 PDT> *evonne*: www.campdarfur.org we were out in a
field (literally) hosting schoolgroups and attempting to blog/update
calendar items. when our tech team was there it worked fine, but
afterward we were stuck. we were not prepared to learn on the fly.

May 31, 13:30:36 PDT> *Boris*: I think some of it is rethinking

May 31, 13:30:52 PDT> *Boris*: For example, ClareWhite, get volunteers
to write an email

May 31, 13:30:57 PDT> *evonne*: it helps to plan ahead!

May 31, 13:31:05 PDT> *Boris*: Another volunteer can then copy/paste
into the wiki

May 31, 13:31:20 PDT> *Boris*: so people that are less comfortable with
new tools can use ones they are comfortable with

May 31, 13:31:32 PDT> *Boris*: meaning you need less techie types for
more information

May 31, 13:31:35 PDT> *ClareWhite*: yeh, i've been trying that on mine,
although it does defeat some of the object of empowering people

May 31, 13:31:36 PDT> *Boris*: and run bootcamps where simple things are
introduced

May 31, 13:31:43 PDT> *Boris*: encourage play is another aspect

May 31, 13:31:50 PDT> *ClareWhite*: also someone needs the time to upload

May 31, 13:31:56 PDT> *Boris*: teach people how to use a new tool, and
give them a corner to do their own thing

May 31, 13:32:08 PDT> *Boris*: ClareWhite: yes, I was trying to suggest
solutions that DON'T involve tech

May 31, 13:32:13 PDT> *Boris*: which is the knee jerk reaction

May 31, 13:32:15 PDT> *ClareWhite*: thanks, that's a good way to start

May 31, 13:32:27 PDT> *Boris*: I could have said "Well, just make it so
your wiki can accept postings via email"

May 31, 13:32:37 PDT> *Boris*: But if you don't have the resources to
make that possible, it's not helpful

May 31, 13:32:44 PDT> *Boris*: Also, many people are not at all
comfortable typing

May 31, 13:32:55 PDT> *MJanofsky*: just to share a personal
experience.....we are in the process ("beta" per se, not on our main
host right now) we are adopting a CMS. It is our main website now, but
our director _still_ has not leared how to use it.

May 31, 13:32:56 PDT> *Boris*: consider getting a Vonage account where
people can leave voice mail messages

May 31, 13:33:07 PDT> *Boris*: which will get sent to you via email

May 31, 13:33:13 PDT> *ClareWhite*: free?

May 31, 13:33:14 PDT> *Boris*: voila! instant podcasting

May 31, 13:33:17 PDT> *evonne*: we dedicated one tent in the field to
wireless and laptops and did a minibootcamp on site....somewhat
successful, but again, hard to do on the fly with other demands onsite.
for smartmob-type action it helps to have an established platform.

May 31, 13:33:38 PDT> *Boris*: no, not free....starts at $20US/month,
but that includes 500 minutes of calling around North America

May 31, 13:33:46 PDT> *ClareWhite*: got it on google :)

May 31, 13:33:51 PDT> *Boris*: there are some free tools as well, plus
the open source Asterisk project

May 31, 13:34:04 PDT> *Boris*: Which is a GREAT tool instead of spending
money on an expensive phone system

May 31, 13:34:15 PDT> *Boris*: evonne: good points

May 31, 13:34:25 PDT> *Boris*: the importance of non-tech tools and
people can't be overstressed

May 31, 13:34:41 PDT> *Boris*: suck people into the digital world by
making it fun

May 31, 13:34:48 PDT> *MJanofsky*: Have you had experience with setting
up Asterisk?

May 31, 13:35:02 PDT> *Boris*: There are some Asterisk on CD tools you
can experiment

May 31, 13:35:22 PDT> *MJanofsky*: can you reccomend some good links for
people to visit?

May 31, 13:36:00 PDT> *Boris*: I'll update my post (and get it linked
from my speaking slot above) --
http://www.bryght.com/blog/boris-mann/open-source-and-your-non-profit

May 31, 13:36:22 PDT> *MJanofsky*: (FYI: Asterisk is an open-source
package the runs under linux to turn a computer in to a VERY expandable
and flexible VoIP and POTS phone system/pbx)

May 31, 13:36:42 PDT> *Boris*: aka free calling over the Internet, as
well as voicemail and other features

May 31, 13:37:01 PDT> *Boris*: (I'm bouncing around tech terms to
hopefully make this intelligible to less technical folks)

May 31, 13:37:27 PDT> *Boris*: The networking point is an interesting one

May 31, 13:37:31 PDT> *gjost*: re: Asterisk, i believe you still need
some sound cards in your server

May 31, 13:37:59 PDT> *Boris*: yes...it is not super easy to setup, but
if you are about to spend $1000s of dollars a month on a phone system

May 31, 13:38:04 PDT> *Boris*: it's worth looking into

May 31, 13:38:27 PDT> *Boris*: If we can help come up with some standard
descriptions of the types of applications and skills that non profits
are in need of

May 31, 13:39:36 PDT> *Boris*: And connect with local user groups

May 31, 13:39:36 PDT> *Boris*: We recently talked in our local Drupal
user group about taking on projects as a group

May 31, 13:39:36 PDT> *Boris*: either to help documentation (always an
easy target)

May 31, 13:39:40 PDT> *Boris*: Or to pick a local non profit and work on
a new website for them

May 31, 13:39:40 PDT> *ClareWhite*: i suppose it would also be useful to
have a central place to have info on projects that could be replicated
and how the people-side of them has worked (you might have already done
this over the conference!)

May 31, 13:39:43 PDT> *Boris*: exactly

May 31, 13:39:46 PDT> *Boris*: case studies

May 31, 13:40:02 PDT> *Boris*: Alex Samuel wrote a great one of how they
helped select Drupal for telecentre.org

May 31, 13:40:10 PDT> *ClareWhite*: for example, what wikis have been
good for, blogs, etc, some of the blocks that might exist in different
countries

May 31, 13:40:11 PDT> *Boris*: I also call them "recipes"

May 31, 13:40:18 PDT> *ClareWhite*: - that would make a good wiki in itself

May 31, 13:40:31 PDT> *Boris*: You bet

May 31, 13:40:33 PDT> *Boris*: This notion, like "TechSoup"

May 31, 13:40:37 PDT> *Boris*: That we can "cook" with technology

May 31, 13:40:49 PDT> *Boris*: You can easily do it with open source,
since anyone can use and expand on it

May 31, 13:40:51 PDT> *MJanofsky*: yes

May 31, 13:41:28 PDT> *Boris*: Where it is harder with closed software
that has stricter licensing terms

May 31, 13:41:28 PDT> *evonne*: i want to borrow whoever designed this
netsquared site ;-)

May 31, 13:41:28 PDT> *Boris*: It was a long process

May 31, 13:42:20 PDT> *Boris*: Also, recruit teens

May 31, 13:42:37 PDT> *evonne*: So when a nonprofit is ready to go and
they have their ideal mashup in mind, teens are onboard and ready to
produce content....where do we begin?

May 31, 13:42:54 PDT> *evonne*: right now we have blogs, photo
galleries, videocasts, none of them integrated....

May 31, 13:42:55 PDT> *Boris*: it's about making those offline
connections again

May 31, 13:43:02 PDT> *Boris*: right, and that is difficult

May 31, 13:43:08 PDT> *Boris*: everyone is looking for the "holy grail"

May 31, 13:43:15 PDT> *Boris*: just give me the one tool that will make
things work

May 31, 13:43:20 PDT> *evonne*: i can see it....just can't seem to build it.

May 31, 13:43:25 PDT> *Boris*: none -- even Drupal :P -- can meet that goal

May 31, 13:43:32 PDT> *Boris*: make sure you have processes and
resources in place

May 31, 13:43:39 PDT> *Boris*: and ideally try not to switch tools too often

May 31, 13:44:05 PDT> *Boris*: make sure you iterate, and debrief on
what went right, and what went wrong, and repeat

May 31, 13:44:14 PDT> *Boris*: in terms of integration...

May 31, 13:44:28 PDT> *gjost*: one problem is dealing with expectations
- once people hear that Drupal (or whatever else) CAN be customized,
they don't like to hear that the particular thing they want can be...
complicated.

May 31, 13:44:37 PDT> *Boris*: gjost: absolutely

May 31, 13:44:57 PDT> *Boris*: In fact, most people can now imagine
things that can be quite difficult technically to implement

May 31, 13:45:14 PDT> *Boris*: so let's have a little recap here

May 31, 13:45:25 PDT> *Boris*: 1) need for non profits to find local
technical types

May 31, 13:45:47 PDT> *Boris*: 2) help explain what technical tasks
could be accomplished -- connect with local user groups (Linux,
Asterisk, Drupal, PHP, etc.)

May 31, 13:46:09 PDT> *Boris*: 3) importance of offline networking to
connect with people that could help -- promote online, use all your
regular networking skills

May 31, 13:46:33 PDT> *Boris*: 4) re-use of older hardware, new tools,
ability to connect open source tools together to get what you need

May 31, 13:47:16 PDT> *Boris*: 5) importance of non-technical processes
along with technology -- print out instructions, let people interact how
they are most comfortable, use free/open tools as possible

May 31, 13:47:38 PDT> *evonne*: great rundown Boris, thank you.

May 31, 13:47:42 PDT> *Boris*: 6) set expectations -- don't expect a
volunteer to have the technical expertise or the time commitment available

May 31, 13:48:10 PDT> *Boris*: And regarding (6), investigate whether
investing in technology/open source will actually save you money

May 31, 13:48:38 PDT> *Boris*: I'm a big fan of investing in open
source, since every dollar spent is one that no one else has to spend again

May 31, 13:49:35 PDT> *Alex*: folks who are interested in open source
for nonprofits should keep an eye on Aspiration (www.aspirationtech.org)

May 31, 13:49:50 PDT> *ClareWhite*: i might add the need to break down
what is wanted and needed into managable pieces that a volunteer can
easily drop in and help out with

May 31, 13:50:03 PDT> *Alex*: they're hoping to do another AdvocacyDev
conference this summer, which is an awesome place to find np-oriented
open source developers

May 31, 13:50:38 PDT> *Boris*: Clare: good point

May 31, 13:51:23 PDT> *ClareWhite*: our fledgling and very non-techy
wiki is at http://neveragain.epov.org :)

May 31, 13:52:39 PDT> *Boris*: One concept I want to mention is
Knowledge Gardening

May 31, 13:52:57 PDT> *Boris*: If you have a wiki or set of discussion
forums, consider adding a companion blog

May 31, 13:53:21 PDT> *Boris*: Have a "Knowledge Gardener" point to some
of the changes and/or desired areas of work every week (or whatever
period is appropriate)

May 31, 13:53:21 PDT> *MJanofsky*: If anyone has any final questions,
now is the time to ask them!

May 31, 13:53:37 PDT> *ClareWhite*: ah, that's a very good way of
putting it

May 31, 13:53:49 PDT> *Alex*: boris, I love the wiki+blog combo

May 31, 13:54:03 PDT> *Boris*: except that blog tools have things built
in that make this much more logical

May 31, 13:54:05 PDT> *Alex*: that's a great way to structure it so the
relationship between the 2 is clear

May 31, 13:54:17 PDT> *Boris*: a way to subscribe, a central place to go

May 31, 13:54:36 PDT> *MJanofsky*: I like how some org's use a
combination of wikis, blogs, forums, newsletters, etc........to share
info and discuss it

May 31, 13:54:57 PDT> *MJanofsky*: some people have a hard time adopting
some technologies, so this makes it easy to access info

May 31, 13:55:35 PDT> *Boris*: yes...for instance, Feeburner.com
recently made it so you can email-enable any blog

May 31, 13:55:40 PDT> *Boris*: oops

May 31, 13:55:42 PDT> *Boris*: Feedburner.com

May 31, 13:56:12 PDT> *Boris*: any other final questions?

May 31, 13:56:20 PDT> *Boris*: As I said, I'll add some links etc. to my
post

May 31, 13:56:28 PDT> *Boris*: and feel free to contact me directly at
boris AT bryght.com

May 31, 13:56:33 PDT> *MJanofsky*: email-to-blog is a very good feature
for the tech-phobic or those who are familiar with email and not blogging

May 31, 13:56:42 PDT> *Boris*: Or better yet, blog about it anywhere in
the world, and I'll find it (using PubSub.com)

May 31, 13:57:59 PDT> *MJanofsky*: This is the last call for final
questions for Boris Mann, "Open Source & Your Non-Profit"

May 31, 14:00:07 PDT> *MJanofsky*: A reminder to everyone to share what
they think Net2's next steps should be, visit
http://www.netsquared.org/next-actions

May 31, 14:00:19 PDT> *MJanofsky*: Well, thank you Boris! This was a
great hour!

May 31, 14:00:47 PDT> *Boris*: Thanks, wandered around a bit, hopefully
some useful info. Was good hearing from evonne and Clare.