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- Hallway chat transcript for May 31 (noon to 5pm)
Hallway chat transcript for May 31 (noon to 5pm)
May 31, 12:00:41 PDT> *Ed*: Yeah, but then you get things like the
Hitler video that they got blasted for; nobody at MoveOn central liked
it, but they're tarred with it
May 31, 12:00:48 PDT> *dave:lifekludger*: jayne: wot do you think?
May 31, 12:00:59 PDT> *Ed*: They get blamed for things their members do
May 31, 12:01:03 PDT> *Jayne*: Sharron is going crazy over what the
MoveOn person is saying and what she has experienced with MoveOn.
May 31, 12:01:15 PDT> *Jayne*: She must just not be aware at all.
May 31, 12:01:38 PDT> *hollis*: shes not very tech saavy..is she??
May 31, 12:01:41 PDT> *gabber308*: I think she is absorbed with her Mom
thing
May 31, 12:01:50 PDT> *Suz 10b*: dave can u clarify what you want jayne
to comment on?
May 31, 12:02:02 PDT> *Jayne*: Dave asks what I think... about the
Hitler video?
May 31, 12:02:05 PDT> *Suz 10b*: no, but not everyone needs to be tech
savvy hollis
May 31, 12:02:09 PDT> *Jayne*: About how that got through?
May 31, 12:02:18 PDT> *hollis*: thats true
May 31, 12:02:23 PDT> *gabber435*: she's uncomfrotable with being on the
spot
May 31, 12:02:27 PDT> *hollis*: Im just surprised
May 31, 12:02:32 PDT> *TK*: Where are we going with any of this?
May 31, 12:02:38 PDT> *Suz 10b*: right
May 31, 12:02:46 PDT> *ScottC*: any issue with her commercial interests
in her book, Ruby?
May 31, 12:02:53 PDT> *Jayne*: You know, volunteers need training, they
need policies, they need to know what their boundaries are... but in a
way, that was bound to happen. And I think what was worse was MoveOn's
response to the video, rather than how it got posted.
May 31, 12:02:59 PDT> *gabber435*: this is interesting, a leading social
network, that's not using facilitation tools
May 31, 12:03:09 PDT> *Ruby*: We are holding their feet to the
grassroots fire, TK.
May 31, 12:03:13 PDT> *gabber435*: i'm not even responding to the moveon
emails any more
May 31, 12:03:24 PDT> *Ed*: What was their response to the video? I
thought they just took it down, said it was user-generated content
May 31, 12:03:46 PDT> *Ed*: [which it was]
May 31, 12:03:52 PDT> *TK*: They are about action, not a news bureau
(with fact checking etc.)
May 31, 12:03:55 PDT> *seadog*: is it just me, or is she wander way off
topic?
May 31, 12:04:01 PDT> *Scott Baker*: agreed
May 31, 12:04:04 PDT> *gabber308*: I think that Move On has a
traditional viewpoint of what the Internet can do
May 31, 12:04:14 PDT> *Jayne*: Yes, it was user-generated content. Was
it wrong? I think it could have turned into a major conversation. But it
was just taken down.
May 31, 12:04:33 PDT> *Sharron*: MoveOn woman is way off topic.
May 31, 12:04:35 PDT> *Scott Baker*: Did she just say having a baby
causes poverty?
May 31, 12:04:44 PDT> *seadog*: welcome, Daniell!
May 31, 12:04:44 PDT> *DaniellKrawczyk*: is there an audio stream?
May 31, 12:04:51 PDT> *gabber308*: Lets just say motherhood doesnt help
your economic potential
May 31, 12:04:53 PDT> *DaniellKrawczyk*: hey Scott!
May 31, 12:05:00 PDT> *Scott Baker*: hey there
May 31, 12:05:00 PDT> *Suz 10b*: no but I will try to convey what is
happening
May 31, 12:05:04 PDT> *Suz 10b*: i would love some help
May 31, 12:05:05 PDT> *Ed*: I think it was good they took the video
down, but maybe we should agree to disagree on that...
May 31, 12:05:07 PDT> *gabber308*: Hey Daniell - LGD here
May 31, 12:05:08 PDT> *Suz 10b*: ivan acare to help?
May 31, 12:05:15 PDT> *Sharron*: She is more intereted in MomsRising at
this point - so she wants to talk about that rather than politics and MoveOn
May 31, 12:05:24 PDT> *Ruby*: MOtherhood is economic challenge.
May 31, 12:05:25 PDT> *Suz 10b*: ivan, do you care to help transcribing?
May 31, 12:05:27 PDT> *dave:lifekludger*: ta suz
May 31, 12:05:34 PDT> *Suz 10b*: ta dave
May 31, 12:05:35 PDT> *hollis*: but how does what she is saying connect
to why we are here
May 31, 12:05:36 PDT> *gabber278*: bring back amy
May 31, 12:05:37 PDT> *seadog*: Micah - let's get back to the discussion
at hand!
May 31, 12:05:39 PDT> *gabber435*: Michah, please stop her!
May 31, 12:05:43 PDT> *gabber308*: AMY AMY AMY
May 31, 12:05:45 PDT> *Jayne*: I care about this issue -- but I don't
get the connection to why we are here.
May 31, 12:05:49 PDT> *hollis*: we want amy
May 31, 12:05:55 PDT> *Jayne*: Please, back on topic!!!
May 31, 12:05:56 PDT> *gabber278*: daniell, kp here, can you get amy back?
May 31, 12:06:01 PDT> *gabber435*: more amy!
May 31, 12:06:05 PDT> *Ed*: WTF?
May 31, 12:06:08 PDT> *Scott Baker*: Farming communities might not feel
as though having a child causes poverty. I am no farmer, but I thought
it was important labor for them.
May 31, 12:06:15 PDT> *Ruby*: I thoguht there as audio thing for later, Suz.
May 31, 12:06:25 PDT> *Suz 10b*: y, that's true ruby
May 31, 12:06:29 PDT> *Ruby*: WAS an audio thing...
May 31, 12:06:30 PDT> *gabber435*: hmmm, mommy bloggers, we're gettin' there
May 31, 12:06:35 PDT> *Suz 10b*: thx, but fo rthe sake of the people now
May 31, 12:06:45 PDT> *Ruby*: The majority of humans live uin urban
communitires, Scott Baker.
May 31, 12:06:50 PDT> *dave:lifekludger*: oh, ok, re audio
May 31, 12:06:52 PDT> *Jayne*: MoveOn could learn alot about volunteer
involvement and volunteers in leadership roles from Blogher.
May 31, 12:06:56 PDT> *gabber308*: Does mommy blogging have anything to
do with blogHer?
May 31, 12:07:11 PDT> *Suz 10b*: and all could read this transcrition
later via the RSS feedd
May 31, 12:07:28 PDT> *Ed*: If other organization models are better than
MoveOn's, those org models will overcome them.
May 31, 12:07:38 PDT> *gabber308*: Does anyone know the status of the
podcasts on these sessions?
May 31, 12:07:43 PDT> *dave:lifekludger*: will have to tie both together
May 31, 12:08:01 PDT> *Ruby*: 308, check the NetSquared website later.
May 31, 12:08:06 PDT> *Ed*: Right now, the press, and politicians, are
more likely to listen to a central MoveOn voice than a cloud of people
May 31, 12:08:09 PDT> *DaniellKrawczyk*: Kari, I don't even what's going
on (Re: Amy). Though I did just finish sitting in on a great online
session in the remote chatroom on Creative Commons
May 31, 12:08:14 PDT> *Suz 10b*: it may be easier to read he follow up
article on TechSoup and the live bloggers than to wade through this
May 31, 12:08:26 PDT> *Jayne*: Can I join the Amy Goodman political
party? She's amazing.
May 31, 12:08:48 PDT> *dave:lifekludger*: suz is this chat saved?
May 31, 12:09:07 PDT> *Suz 10b*: dave, yes in the RSS feed, but if you
haven't subscribed to it
May 31, 12:09:14 PDT> *marnie*: as i understand it, we're getting a
transcript from the folks at gabbly.com
May 31, 12:09:19 PDT> *Suz 10b*: someone from Net2 has already done so
May 31, 12:09:32 PDT> *Ruby*: I don't want to hear about Joan's issues! I
May 31, 12:09:32 PDT> *Ruby*: Yes, Amy!
May 31, 12:09:34 PDT> *gabber435*: Jayne, Amy is amazing! I vote for her
as a thought leader for our social networking/social justice voices (per
Rheingold's recommendation of yday)
May 31, 12:09:38 PDT> *gabber308*: Amy is taking charge!
May 31, 12:09:39 PDT> *Suz 10b*: aaron P has subscribed to the RSS
May 31, 12:09:45 PDT> *seadog*: i don't think this is streaming in any
format. it's all being recorded for archiving
May 31, 12:09:56 PDT> *dave:lifekludger*: I gather Amy good, Micah good.
rest not so.
May 31, 12:10:01 PDT> *Ruby*: There arev tons more as smart as Amy.
May 31, 12:10:02 PDT> *Ruby*: Read blogs!
May 31, 12:10:07 PDT> *hollis*: dont let the moderator off the hook either
May 31, 12:10:09 PDT> *Jayne*: I would love for Amy to challenge me with
some really tough questions -- would be a life-changing experience.
May 31, 12:10:10 PDT> *Suz 10b*: no it's not streaming
May 31, 12:10:15 PDT> *BBravo*: Hi, this is Britt Bravo from Net2.
Re:podcasting, Cisco was nice enought to record all the sessions for us.
We will be loading the recordings on the Net2 podcast:
May 31, 12:10:16 PDT> *BBravo*: http://www.odeo.com/channel/41065/view
May 31, 12:10:24 PDT> *Setherplast*: the immoderater ought to be pushing
this beyond the whole moms thing. we get it
May 31, 12:10:26 PDT> *DaniellKrawczyk*: Did anyone catch the
presentation that Drazen Pantic did? I just read about it today and it
makes me really regret being on the other end of the country
May 31, 12:10:28 PDT> *Jayne*: Amy Good. Micah good. Rest not so. Dave good.
May 31, 12:10:28 PDT> *gabber308*: Thanks for that concrete info
May 31, 12:10:34 PDT> *gabber308*: Drazen cancelled
May 31, 12:10:44 PDT> *DaniellKrawczyk*: then again, nevermind
May 31, 12:11:00 PDT> *Suz 10b*:
http://www.netsquared.org/conference-tracking info on remote conference
tracking
May 31, 12:11:26 PDT> *dave:lifekludger*: ahhh ta suz
May 31, 12:11:45 PDT> *Suz 10b*: np dave HTH
May 31, 12:11:51 PDT> *TK*: More questions, without the earlier ones
getting answered.
May 31, 12:12:06 PDT> *Suz 10b*: raise yer hand and ask TK
May 31, 12:12:10 PDT> *gabber308*: Question Time: How do we make sure
that we are not just talking to ourselves?
May 31, 12:12:11 PDT> *MSifry*: which early question do you feel wasn't
answered?
May 31, 12:12:13 PDT> *Suz 10b*: (or are you remote?)
May 31, 12:13:26 PDT> *hollis*: great point Amy
May 31, 12:13:26 PDT> *Ruby*: Most of them, Michah.
May 31, 12:13:26 PDT> *Ed*: Q: Is it a problem that the tools we're
talking about using are corporate-owned? MySpace by Murdoch's NewsCorp,
text messaging by the telcos that are working with NSA?
May 31, 12:13:26 PDT> *gabber308*: Amy sees a political opportunity
because things are so bad across the nation
May 31, 12:13:30 PDT> *TK*: I didn't ask them, but those that took the
time to do so, should have at least received answers in some form. Maybe
it will happen later online.
May 31, 12:13:30 PDT> *gabber308*: You bet its a problem that these
tools are corporate-ly owned.
May 31, 12:13:30 PDT> *MSifry*: we didn't cover Unity 08 but that is
preety far afield
May 31, 12:13:30 PDT> *MSifry*: we covered one to many, how to connect
supporters
May 31, 12:13:30 PDT> *gabber308*: The intersection of network and
content is why net neutrality is such a pressing issue!!
May 31, 12:13:32 PDT> *MSifry*: i should raise the immigration issue
May 31, 12:13:35 PDT> *Ruby*: OK OK.
May 31, 12:13:36 PDT> *Setherplast*: Ed: Chris Messina treats his email
like the gov't is reading
May 31, 12:13:40 PDT> *MSifry*: but i doubt they have much to say on it
May 31, 12:13:41 PDT> *Setherplast*: I think he's right
May 31, 12:13:48 PDT> *Ruby*: I can't remember all of them.
May 31, 12:13:51 PDT> *Jayne*: Yes, the question about how to use these
tools to oppose corporate dominance -- please address this!!
May 31, 12:13:53 PDT> *gabber308*: Does he write in code?
May 31, 12:14:08 PDT> *Scott Baker*: Nice thought Jayne...
May 31, 12:14:14 PDT> *TK*: That's my point. Who wrote them down,
May 31, 12:14:20 PDT> *Ruby*: We need to speak out so we can find each
other!
May 31, 12:14:41 PDT> *MSifry*: i wrote them down
May 31, 12:14:42 PDT> *Jayne*: It was SHarron's thought -- I was just
seconded it. She's the great thinker. I'm just a worker and a wannabe.
May 31, 12:14:44 PDT> *Setherplast*: Go Amy!
May 31, 12:14:54 PDT> *Suz 10b*: they are now translating their content
into spanish growing in thousands
May 31, 12:15:19 PDT> *Jayne*: Amy -- I'm just so in love... my
boyfriend will be disappointed.
May 31, 12:15:19 PDT> *gabber308*: I would be so proud to be Amy
Goodman's mother
May 31, 12:15:25 PDT> *TK*: Great. Will they be answered at some point?
May 31, 12:15:42 PDT> *ScottC*: are corporations an absolute negative?
May 31, 12:15:42 PDT> *Jayne*: Does Amy have a cult I could join?
May 31, 12:15:42 PDT> *MSifry*: TK, we covered some of them...which one
are you missing?
May 31, 12:15:49 PDT> *Ed*: www.verifiedvotingfoundation.org
May 31, 12:15:56 PDT> *Suz 10b*: Q; poor quality of electronic voting
system vulnerable to hacking , irrelevant to talk about other stuff
while electronic voting sux
May 31, 12:15:57 PDT> *Jayne*: I want to say it again -- will the
question on how to use the Internet to oppose corporate
interests/dominance be addressed.
May 31, 12:16:04 PDT> *quixotic-ivan*: ok i'm back now
May 31, 12:16:10 PDT> *gabber308*: You could join the public access
media movement. She is one of our lead thinkers
May 31, 12:16:24 PDT> *ScottC*: Jayne
May 31, 12:16:24 PDT> *hollis*: people have been raiding voting boxes
for years.. ever heard of LBJ?
May 31, 12:16:24 PDT> *quixotic-ivan*: hey have i mentioned how i helped
to start the diebold expos√?¬©....
May 31, 12:16:38 PDT> *quixotic-ivan*: (sorry it was my 15 mins of fame)
May 31, 12:16:46 PDT> *gabber278*: we need to figure out a way to bridge
the public access tv movemnt with all these great new tools.
May 31, 12:16:50 PDT> *gabber741*: Verified Voting has moved beyond just
electronic voting, and is dealing with non-electronic voting issues too
May 31, 12:16:51 PDT> *Jayne*: Jayne, Jayne, that's mah name.
May 31, 12:16:52 PDT> *gabber379*: not sure if this still stands but in
2004: http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/archives/002068.php
May 31, 12:16:55 PDT> *ScottC*: are corporate interests/dominance all bad?
May 31, 12:16:59 PDT> *Suz 10b*: no but verified.org has many problems
May 31, 12:17:10 PDT> *ScottC*: or can their motivations be harnessed
for good things?
May 31, 12:17:11 PDT> *gabber308*: Corporations have one goal: to
maximize profit
May 31, 12:17:19 PDT> *Scott Baker*: I think the thing about
corporations that they are not open for public participation.
May 31, 12:17:22 PDT> *Suz 10b*: they left hundreds of volunteers in the
lurch
May 31, 12:17:29 PDT> *gabber308*: To the extent that corporations work
to compromise democracy we need to question
May 31, 12:17:30 PDT> *Suz 10b*: without email replies
May 31, 12:17:33 PDT> *Scott Baker*: In education, that suggests they do
good enough, not max potential
May 31, 12:17:46 PDT> *ScottC*: 308 - is that bad or can that be leveraged
May 31, 12:17:46 PDT> *Suz 10b*: terribly mismanaged
May 31, 12:17:46 PDT> *quixotic-ivan*: in a lot of states (esp. western
states) you can request "absentee" ballots even if you're not going
anywhere -- thus you can get paper ballots
May 31, 12:17:46 PDT> *Jayne*: Scott C, you are right. I love Microsoft
dominance. Seriously, corporate interests aren't bad. I am very fond of
many corporations. But corporate dominance -- bad, yes. Walmart is bad.
May 31, 12:17:46 PDT> *TK*: Demos don't have the balls. They lack the
courage that Amy wears well.
May 31, 12:17:46 PDT> *gabber741*: Corporate interests aren't all bad,
but one can be concerned.
May 31, 12:17:56 PDT> *gabber308*: to the extent that corporations work
to prevent true competition in the marketplace (re: current telecom
bills): they are bad
May 31, 12:18:16 PDT> *gabber278*: amy has articulated exactly why the
public access tv movment is so critical and now we have new and better
tools.. connecting people to tools for social change..
May 31, 12:18:24 PDT> *Ed*: Suz 10b, I'm wondering what you think the
problems with Verified Voting are.
May 31, 12:18:30 PDT> *ScottC*: no shades of gray with walmart?
May 31, 12:18:38 PDT> *Jayne*: It would have been cool to have some of
the anti-Walmart folks here who are using the Net to organize. Heck, I
would have liked to have heard from more right-wing based net organizers.
May 31, 12:18:47 PDT> *gabber308*: Walmart is cheap but why are they
cheap? What is the real cost of the goods they sell?
May 31, 12:18:50 PDT> *ScottC*: isn't an efficient supply chain of
goods, a common good?
May 31, 12:18:52 PDT> *Ed*: [I guess I should mention I work with them.]
May 31, 12:18:56 PDT> *hollis*: the supreme court conciders a
corporation a body with similar rights as a 'real person'...scary
May 31, 12:19:02 PDT> *Jayne*: Walmart Watch does some great work and I
would have liked to have heard from them.
May 31, 12:19:10 PDT> *gabber308*: Efficient supply chain achieve
through price fixing
May 31, 12:19:11 PDT> *quixotic-ivan*: michael silberman has worked on
the seiu's walmart campaign
May 31, 12:19:14 PDT> *Suz 10b*: Q-- what is appropriate technology for
moveon.org? Regardless of the tool, we need to hear more about cultural
sensitivity arouond the tools, not everything is english-centric, need
to use apt tool to meet our audience
May 31, 12:19:20 PDT> *hollis*: Walmart has more people in uniform than
the US military
May 31, 12:19:22 PDT> *Jayne*: But to hear everyone I want to hear from
would take a month....
May 31, 12:19:37 PDT> *quixotic-ivan*: if you haven't already, you
should watch the documentary "the corporation"
May 31, 12:19:48 PDT> *quixotic-ivan*: http://www.thecorporation.com/
May 31, 12:19:49 PDT> *Ruby*: I feell like although MoveOn and
DemocracyNow are doing a great speaking out on issues that I care about,
but I doln't feel liek they are empowering ME to speak out on them.
May 31, 12:19:50 PDT> *ScottC*: there are unintended outcomes
May 31, 12:20:19 PDT> *gabber308*: But you have all this personal media
at your disposal, how can you say you are not empowered??????????
May 31, 12:20:19 PDT> *Daniell*: maybe that's how we'll solve the
troop-shortage problem... recruit "greeters" like Walmart does
May 31, 12:20:21 PDT> *ScottC*: Ruby - you want more "don't speak. Point."
May 31, 12:20:27 PDT> *gabber678*: that's exactly iy
May 31, 12:20:29 PDT> *gabber678*: it
May 31, 12:20:29 PDT> *Scott Baker*: I second the tip quixotic-ivan. The
corporation is a very thought-provoking movie.
May 31, 12:20:47 PDT> *gabber678*: I want to know the secret sauce
behind seeding grassroots
May 31, 12:20:49 PDT> *Suz 10b*: answer-- we also didn't reference
mobile technologies either, we need to listen and see what tools are
working and go with those
May 31, 12:20:51 PDT> *Ruby*: I didn't say I'm not empowere3d. I am, but
not thanks to them.
May 31, 12:21:07 PDT> *quixotic-ivan*: 678, you mean astroturfing?
May 31, 12:21:32 PDT> *gabber678*: rather than delving into the aspects
of the specific issues these folks are working on
May 31, 12:21:32 PDT> *gabber308*: There are alot of people who are
animated as a result of listenting/watching to Democracy Now.
May 31, 12:21:32 PDT> *Jayne*: I would like to hear from some WTC
organizers from Seattle who used networking tech to organize -- maybe
next year.
May 31, 12:21:32 PDT> *gabber678*: "astroturfing?"
May 31, 12:21:38 PDT> *geodog*: does anyone feel like they have
addressed Leda's question about why we are doing so poorly politically
if we are doing so well on the net (she said it better)
May 31, 12:21:45 PDT> *ScottC*: fake grassroots efforts
May 31, 12:21:56 PDT> *ScottC*: 678
May 31, 12:21:56 PDT> *Ruby*: TTrue, 308.
May 31, 12:21:56 PDT> *quixotic-ivan*: corporations who set up "fake
grassroots" sites (like the anti-net neutrality campaign)
May 31, 12:21:56 PDT> *hollis*: dont laugh...Walmart tried to get the
contract to provide uniforms for the military (Hillary was on the inital
board of Walmart back in arkansas)
May 31, 12:22:11 PDT> *gabber678*: ah
May 31, 12:22:27 PDT> *quixotic-ivan*: jayne, i was suprised there were
few references to indymedia in the ohmynews discussion yesterday --
citizen journalism has been around for awhile
May 31, 12:22:27 PDT> *Jayne*: geodog -- this was talked about in a
workshop yesterday -- really good stuff. It was from a guy formerly with
the Dean campaign.
May 31, 12:22:27 PDT> *TK*: I feel like Paul Saffo
May 31, 12:22:28 PDT> *gabber308*: Ruby, I think that your question is a
good one. So what that we have all these tools at our disposal? How do
you move from grass roots to democratic action???
May 31, 12:22:39 PDT> *aaron*: good point re: indymedia.
May 31, 12:22:40 PDT> *gabber678*: no, I mean more along the lines of
what did these folks learn as they were building their incredibly
well-known orgs
May 31, 12:22:55 PDT> *aaron*: it's conspicuously missing from the
conversations these days
May 31, 12:22:55 PDT> *quixotic-ivan*: also there are a number of lefty
tech collectives -- riseup.net, oat.tao.ca, eggplant.coop -- that do
really great work for small community orgs.
May 31, 12:23:00 PDT> *gabber678*: I almost said successful, but that's
another missing piece -- what specific actions resulted from their
impressive mindshare?
May 31, 12:23:03 PDT> *Holly Ross*: I think we've also failed to talk
about whether or not all this is affecting decision makers.
May 31, 12:23:17 PDT> *Holly Ross*: whether/how
May 31, 12:23:22 PDT> *ScottC*: citizen journalism has been around in
the US since the Revolutionary war...
May 31, 12:23:23 PDT> *TK*: Yeah others are doing what you are doing, in
opposition to your interests
May 31, 12:23:28 PDT> *gabber308*: Holly, it certainly affects
mainstream media. They are constantly trolling these alternative sources
for news tips
May 31, 12:23:34 PDT> *Jayne*: Holly Ross is making yet another fabulous
point.
May 31, 12:23:47 PDT> *Cyber-Yenta*: I (heart) Holly
May 31, 12:23:47 PDT> *hollis*: holly, you rock!
May 31, 12:23:49 PDT> *gabber308*: There are two things that affect
decision makers:
May 31, 12:23:54 PDT> *gabber308*: Money and Votes
May 31, 12:24:04 PDT> *quixotic-ivan*: well, it's more than votes
May 31, 12:24:06 PDT> *quixotic-ivan*: it's consent
May 31, 12:24:09 PDT> *Cyber-Yenta*: It reallly is hard to do outcomes
measurement with electronic advocacy.
May 31, 12:24:09 PDT> *hollis*: the two things are really money and money
May 31, 12:24:10 PDT> *quixotic-ivan*: people remove consent, rulers fall
May 31, 12:24:24 PDT> *ES*: Holly - doesn't that go back to the need for
Elite's as discussed yesterday?
May 31, 12:24:27 PDT> *quixotic-ivan*: plenty of dictators have been
overthrown by nonviolent poor people's movements
May 31, 12:24:39 PDT> *TK*: Now Amy sounds like Paul Saffo
May 31, 12:24:40 PDT> *quixotic-ivan*: ooh ooh lemme plug my four types
of elites post!
May 31, 12:24:47 PDT> *gabber308*: Yeah Money. But inthe end, votes get
them elected. If they think political action represents local voters
they feel compelled to pay attention
May 31, 12:24:54 PDT> *Ruby*: Holly 7 geodog are both getting at the
point: what impact is this having?
May 31, 12:25:00 PDT> *quixotic-ivan*:
http://netsquared.org/blog/quixotic/different-kinds-of-elites-and-different-kinds-of-elitism
May 31, 12:25:18 PDT> *Holly Ross*: my gabbly connection keeps timing out!
May 31, 12:25:22 PDT> *TK*: Technology is a dual-edged sword
May 31, 12:25:41 PDT> *aaron*: technology is a dual edged word
May 31, 12:25:45 PDT> *dave:lifekludger*: suz: wots time there?
May 31, 12:25:46 PDT> *gabber308*: Mobilizing people through electronic
tools is effective as far as we are able to link people power with
VOTES. It is our only defense against money influence
May 31, 12:25:49 PDT> *hollis*: no matter how much money is raised 95%
of congress gets re-elected...why
May 31, 12:25:54 PDT> *Suz 10b*: time is 12:25pm
May 31, 12:26:17 PDT> *Jayne*: REmember how Ben Affleck campaigned all
over the place for the Demos and then it turned out he wasn't even
registered to vote?
May 31, 12:26:17 PDT> *quixotic-ivan*: there are money elites and their
are traditional power elites (e.g. elected officials) but there are
other kinds of elites too
May 31, 12:26:31 PDT> *Jayne*: We have to get people registered and then
get them to the polls.
May 31, 12:26:45 PDT> *gabber308*: I liked the cellphone registration
project from Vota Latina
May 31, 12:26:47 PDT> *quixotic-ivan*: just like there are campaigns
that raise influence through money, but there are campaigns that raise
influence other ways as well
May 31, 12:26:56 PDT> *dave:lifekludger*: so this sesssion- 11:00 AM
12:30 PM Grassroots, Netroots, and the End and Beginning of Politics
May 31, 12:26:58 PDT> *quixotic-ivan*: voting is important, but only if
it leads to more participatory democracy
May 31, 12:26:58 PDT> *Holly Ross*: I think we should challenge
MoveOn.org. They invested VERY heavily in the 04 elections, but "we"
didn't win.
May 31, 12:27:02 PDT> *Suz 10b*: yes, dave
May 31, 12:27:10 PDT> *Holly Ross*: And we have to ask why.
May 31, 12:27:11 PDT> *hollis*: thats the right direction...cell phone
voting
May 31, 12:27:12 PDT> *quixotic-ivan*: the goal shouldn't be push people
hard every four years and otherwise stay out of the ghettos
May 31, 12:27:14 PDT> *dave:lifekludger*: ahhh....
May 31, 12:27:19 PDT> *Suz 10b*: go holly
May 31, 12:27:22 PDT> *Suz 10b*: i dare you
May 31, 12:27:26 PDT> *TK*: We can get them to the polls, but can we
educate them how to vote
May 31, 12:27:27 PDT> *quixotic-ivan*: the goal should be acutally
working to improve democracy all the time
May 31, 12:27:29 PDT> *Holly Ross*: I'm not that brave
May 31, 12:27:35 PDT> *Suz 10b*: for a beer?
May 31, 12:27:37 PDT> *Ed*: Some would say we didn't win because of
voter irregularities in Ohio...
May 31, 12:27:38 PDT> *Suz 10b*: or two?
May 31, 12:27:41 PDT> *Suz 10b*: j/k
May 31, 12:27:49 PDT> *gabber638*: yes holly i thought it was
interesting Joan said the issue was what they stand for, when nearly all
the emails i get from MoveOn are about blocking or stopping things
May 31, 12:27:50 PDT> *Holly Ross*: Sadly, we're out of time!
May 31, 12:27:52 PDT> *Ruby*: I don't think you can totally blame them,
when the playing field is not balance. But you raise a good point, Holly.
May 31, 12:27:52 PDT> *Jayne*: We have to ask why they wouldn't talk
about the voting improprieties. Despite so many of their members asking
for them to say so.
May 31, 12:28:06 PDT> *Ed*: But if MoveOn isn't getting the job done,
time to start an allied, better organization
May 31, 12:28:12 PDT> *Jayne*: Good point, Gabber
May 31, 12:28:24 PDT> *Holly Ross*: Not balanced? Because the Right
spends more? How do you mean Ruby?
May 31, 12:28:26 PDT> *Suz 10b*: why not infiltrate the already existing
powerful org, moveon?
May 31, 12:28:27 PDT> *Cyber-Yenta*: How do prove who had what impact,
when the chain of causality is so long and complicated?
May 31, 12:28:27 PDT> *dave:lifekludger*: phew goes holly
May 31, 12:28:30 PDT> *Jayne*: Good point Ruby. Good point Ed. Good
point most everyone.
May 31, 12:28:33 PDT> *quixotic-ivan*: moveon as the afl-cio...hmm...
May 31, 12:28:38 PDT> *gabber308*: It takes all kinds of organizations
to win. We can't put all our eggs int he Move on basket
May 31, 12:28:44 PDT> *Setherplast*: I think we have to look at more
community based models. DailyKos seems to be empowering people to take
part, MoveOn seems to annoy us with emails
May 31, 12:28:49 PDT> *Suz 10b*: but they have the membership
May 31, 12:28:49 PDT> *TK*: "if you don't like the news, go out and make
some of your own" Scoop Nisker
May 31, 12:29:01 PDT> *Rob Cottingham*: That's a pretty good question
there, Deborah
May 31, 12:29:02 PDT> *Jayne*: I like infiltrating existing orgs and
changing stuff. I intend to do it with several orgs when I return to the
USA some day. Just you wait.....
May 31, 12:29:02 PDT> *Ruby*: This is TOM standing up.
May 31, 12:29:09 PDT> *Ed*: I think a lot of people and orgs avoid the
voting theft issue because it makes them look like conspiracy theorists
May 31, 12:29:10 PDT> *Jayne*: The Rotary Club will never be the same.
May 31, 12:29:22 PDT> *Suz 10b*: i agree with jayne
May 31, 12:29:22 PDT> *Cyber-Yenta*: I'm constantly tearing my hair out
over this question, Rob.
May 31, 12:29:28 PDT> *Ed*: Kos of Daily Kos won't talk about it, for
example, though site users do
May 31, 12:29:35 PDT> *Scott Baker*: I used to work at the Rotary HQ...
don't forget to stop there. :-)
May 31, 12:29:35 PDT> *Cyber-Yenta*: (You can see that it's pretty
thinned out.)
May 31, 12:29:40 PDT> *Holly Ross*: I think that's right Cyber Yenta,
it's hard to give blame or kudos for any specific thing, but you can see
trends and general caualities
May 31, 12:29:41 PDT> *gabber638*: (aka 648) and we need an org that
motivates people around some tangible things about what we will do...
NOT yet another org focused on blocking things
May 31, 12:29:47 PDT> *Suz 10b*: archive.org shout out for the rmote
peeps here
May 31, 12:29:49 PDT> *Jayne*: It's true, Ed. Where's my tin foil hat?
But seriously -- there is soooo much documentation.
May 31, 12:29:52 PDT> *Ruby*: Because the right has changed the laws to
benefit themslves, Holly.
May 31, 12:29:56 PDT> *Jayne*: Archive.org rocks.
May 31, 12:29:56 PDT> *TK*: I agree Archive.org is great
May 31, 12:30:07 PDT> *Suz 10b*: email democracynow.org has job oppening
May 31, 12:30:07 PDT> *Holly Ross*: which laws? districting?
May 31, 12:30:09 PDT> *Ruby*: DN! is hiring a web helper!
May 31, 12:30:12 PDT> *Suz 10b*: to manage online bookstore
May 31, 12:30:14 PDT> *Suz 10b*: pass it on
May 31, 12:30:20 PDT> *Holly Ross*: It's tough to argue that campaign
finance laws hurt the Dems
May 31, 12:30:25 PDT> *Cyber-Yenta*: I'm always asking people, "so, how
many whales did you save with that web site?" or email campaign, or
whatever.
May 31, 12:30:27 PDT> *gabber308*: You name the category of law, they
are working to change it to serve corporate interests.
May 31, 12:30:28 PDT> *Jayne*: Can I be Amy Goodman's personal assistant
May 31, 12:30:28 PDT> *Jayne*: ?
May 31, 12:30:29 PDT> *hollis*: Amy just took all of Jayne√¢¬?¬?s volunteers
May 31, 12:30:30 PDT> *Suz 10b*: 47 gabbers!!
May 31, 12:30:30 PDT> *Cyber-Yenta*: No one knows, really.
May 31, 12:30:33 PDT> *Ed*: As much documentation as there is, the
mainstream press won't "admit" it, and people like MoveOn and Kos want
to be able to talk to those folks
May 31, 12:30:41 PDT> *Ruby*: Great job, Micah.
May 31, 12:30:43 PDT> *Jayne*: Oh, Hollis, it's so true...
May 31, 12:30:52 PDT> *quixotic-ivan*: mail@democracynow.org
May 31, 12:30:53 PDT> *Suz 10b*: mail@democracynow.org
May 31, 12:30:56 PDT> *geodog*: no, he didn't pick up Leda's question
May 31, 12:30:59 PDT> *Suz 10b*: ivan, my echo
May 31, 12:30:59 PDT> *gabber308*: Love this room! See ya
May 31, 12:31:07 PDT> *Suz 10b*: see you all after lunch
May 31, 12:31:09 PDT> *Ed*: Eat
May 31, 12:31:12 PDT> *quixotic-ivan*: see ya
May 31, 12:31:15 PDT> *Holly Ross*: Hey Ruby - I'll buy you lunch!
May 31, 12:31:21 PDT> *Rob Cottingham*: the other thing you have to
shake your head at is just how big the freaking problem is - from the
media's corporate lens and pack mentality to the integrity of the voting
system to voter alienation to life during wartime
May 31, 12:31:22 PDT> *Suz 10b*: gr8 sesh!
May 31, 12:31:29 PDT> *dave:lifekludger*: bye
May 31, 12:31:36 PDT> *Ruby*: Holly, free speech, civil liberties,
taxes, etc.
May 31, 12:31:53 PDT> *Holly Ross*: that's a 3 drink conversation Ruby
May 31, 12:31:54 PDT> *Ruby*: Deal!
May 31, 12:31:56 PDT> *dave:lifekludger*: 5am here -sleep
May 31, 12:31:56 PDT> *Suz 10b*: bye dave
May 31, 12:32:02 PDT> *Suz 10b*: thanks
May 31, 12:32:28 PDT> *Daniell*: Seadog and KP, see you in a couple
weeks....
May 31, 12:32:38 PDT> *Ruby*: I have all night.
May 31, 12:45:19 PDT> *MJanofsky*: Hey Everyone! I'm Michael Janofsky,
and I'll be your moderator for the next hour beginning in about 15
minutes! :D
May 31, 12:48:19 PDT> *MJanofsky*: is there a moderator here right now
(from the 12:00 PST hour?)\
May 31, 12:48:46 PDT> *DaniellKrawczyk*: I think it's just us chickens
May 31, 12:49:13 PDT> *DaniellKrawczyk*: I'm guessing everyone actually
at the conference is eating right now
May 31, 12:50:50 PDT> *MJanofsky*: probably
May 31, 12:50:57 PDT> *MJanofsky*: i dont know the schedule for the
actualy conference
May 31, 12:51:45 PDT> *DaniellKrawczyk*: there were between 40 and 60
people in this chat 15 minutes ago
May 31, 12:52:02 PDT> *DaniellKrawczyk*: and they all left within 2 minutes
May 31, 12:52:10 PDT> *DaniellKrawczyk*: must have been the dinner bell
May 31, 12:53:51 PDT> *MJanofsky*: probably
May 31, 12:54:00 PDT> *MJanofsky*: are you at the actualy conference
Daniell?
May 31, 12:54:07 PDT> *MJanofsky*: *actual
May 31, 12:54:15 PDT> *DaniellKrawczyk*: No, I'm across the country in
North Carolina
May 31, 12:54:35 PDT> *DaniellKrawczyk*: Though I'll be in the area in a
week and a half for Vloggercon
May 31, 12:54:40 PDT> *MJanofsky*: ah ha, great to see someone else!
May 31, 12:54:51 PDT> *DaniellKrawczyk*: ha
May 31, 12:55:04 PDT> *DaniellKrawczyk*: and yourself?
May 31, 12:55:47 PDT> *MJanofsky*: i'm stuck in VT
May 31, 12:56:22 PDT> *DaniellKrawczyk*: oh, where in VT?
May 31, 12:56:36 PDT> *MJanofsky*: Anyone here actually at the
NetSquared Conference?
May 31, 12:56:48 PDT> *MJanofsky*: (Northern....I won't be any more
specific here)
May 31, 12:57:05 PDT> *DaniellKrawczyk*: Beautiful area (not
specifically of course)
May 31, 12:57:22 PDT> *MJanofsky*: yeah, it is nice
May 31, 13:05:43 PDT> *MJanofsky*: Anyone here at the real Net2
conference today?
May 31, 13:18:28 PDT> *MJanofsky*: 12 Gabbers!
May 31, 13:18:32 PDT> *MJanofsky*: How is everyone doing today?
May 31, 13:21:15 PDT> *Eric*: I am away myself
May 31, 13:21:37 PDT> *MJanofsky*: are you at the conference?
May 31, 13:21:38 PDT> *MJanofsky*: Hi Eric!
May 31, 13:21:46 PDT> *Eric*: Hi MJ
May 31, 13:23:47 PDT> *MJanofsky*: Alex-Are you "the" Alex-the
coordinator of these chats?
May 31, 13:23:53 PDT> *Eric*: How is VT today?
May 31, 13:24:18 PDT> *MJanofsky*: not to bad
May 31, 13:24:24 PDT> *MJanofsky*: raining & t-storms
May 31, 13:24:52 PDT> *Eric*: Sounds not too great...
May 31, 13:25:00 PDT> *dave:lifekludger*: anyone from net2 here?
May 31, 13:25:12 PDT> *MJanofsky*: it could be worse.....the rain is
pretty light this time 'round
May 31, 13:25:24 PDT> *Alex*: hi Michael, you rang?
May 31, 13:25:31 PDT> *Eric*: Dave: I'm from CM, pretty close :)
May 31, 13:25:54 PDT> *MJanofsky*: yeah
May 31, 13:25:58 PDT> *MJanofsky*: did you get my email
May 31, 13:26:00 PDT> *Alex*: yes, that's me Michael
May 31, 13:26:03 PDT> *dave:lifekludger*: i'm trying find link to
podcast feed
May 31, 13:26:17 PDT> *MJanofsky*: I wasn't sure what chat I should be
in, so I am jumping (well, mostly the regular chat) back and forth
May 31, 13:26:26 PDT> *MJanofsky*: i couldnt figure it out! :)
May 31, 13:26:26 PDT> *Alex*: ok, checking now
May 31, 13:26:37 PDT> *Alex*: I think you're doing a great job int he
remote room
May 31, 13:26:56 PDT> *MJanofsky*: thx
May 31, 13:27:01 PDT> *Eric*: http://www.odeo.com/channel/41065/view
May 31, 13:27:14 PDT> *MJanofsky*: what's that link for Eric?
May 31, 13:27:30 PDT> *dave:lifekludger*: thnx eric
May 31, 13:27:30 PDT> *Alex*: and moderation hasn't turned out to be
needed in the hallway
May 31, 13:27:31 PDT> *Eric*: the podcasts should be posted
post-conference (sorry, this is the link for podcasts
May 31, 13:27:33 PDT> *Alex*: (thanks, everyone!!)
May 31, 13:27:53 PDT> *Alex*: so if you can stay on top of the current
remote chat, you're doing me a huge favour!
May 31, 13:27:58 PDT> *MJanofsky*: thx
May 31, 13:28:02 PDT> *MJanofsky*: ok
May 31, 13:28:24 PDT> *dave:lifekludger*: bloody hard 2 find on net2
website at 5am in australia
May 31, 13:28:44 PDT> *Eric*: whats hard to find?
May 31, 13:28:55 PDT> *Eric*: everything is hard at 5am :)
May 31, 13:29:11 PDT> *dave:lifekludger*: link to podcast feed
May 31, 13:29:13 PDT> *MJanofsky*: yeah
May 31, 13:29:21 PDT> *MJanofsky*: even making coffee to make 5 am less hard
May 31, 13:29:43 PDT> *Alex*: hey everybody, I have some terribly
exciting news
May 31, 13:29:57 PDT> *Alex*: if you refresh this page, you'll be able
to access transcripts from yesterday's hallway chat
May 31, 13:30:01 PDT> *MJanofsky*: WHAT WHAT tell us!!!!!!!!!! :D
May 31, 13:30:37 PDT> *Eric*: very cool thanks!
May 31, 13:30:53 PDT> *gabber346*: nice
May 31, 13:31:06 PDT> *MJanofsky*: does that apply to the remote chat as
well?
May 31, 13:31:35 PDT> *Michael_Janofsky*: (fyi: to make it easy, i was
MJanofsky)
May 31, 13:32:12 PDT> *Eric*: Both chats are being logged, but the
remote one is not up yet.
May 31, 13:33:12 PDT> *Michael_Janofsky*: ok
May 31, 13:33:26 PDT> *Michael_Janofsky*: (i don't want to refresh
mine.....bad things happen!!!!)
May 31, 13:33:27 PDT> *Alex*: remote will be up soon
May 31, 13:33:31 PDT> *Michael_Janofsky*: (M$ Demons!)
May 31, 13:33:37 PDT> *Alex*: I want to break the remote chats down
hour-by-hour/speaker-by-speaker
May 31, 13:33:42 PDT> *Alex*: which will take a little time
May 31, 13:33:44 PDT> *Eric*: good idea
May 31, 13:33:56 PDT> *Alex*: re: refreshing, try opening the hallway in
a new tab/window/browser
May 31, 13:34:00 PDT> *Michael_Janofsky*: that's great.
May 31, 13:34:05 PDT> *Alex*: then once you're up in the new window,
close this one
May 31, 13:34:19 PDT> *Michael_Janofsky*: (i mean the remote one......)
May 31, 13:34:25 PDT> *Michael_Janofsky*: (had issues yesterday
May 31, 13:34:25 PDT> *Michael_Janofsky*: )
May 31, 13:35:02 PDT> *Eric*: I also do the hallway using this url:
http://gabbly.com/netsquared.org/hallway. This lets you expand the
screen if you like
May 31, 13:35:54 PDT> *Alex*: yes, the DIY implementation is nicer
May 31, 13:36:03 PDT> *Alex*: but we thought it was nifty to just
integrate it into the page
May 31, 13:36:36 PDT> *Eric*: They are both fine, depends what you want
:) I have two monitors now, so lots of realestate available!
May 31, 13:36:50 PDT> *Alex*: Michael! you're sucha geek!
May 31, 13:37:02 PDT> *Alex*: all that asterisk info -- i had no idea
that was up your sleeve. bravo.
May 31, 13:38:26 PDT> *Alex*: George Carlin has this bit about how
anyone who drives faster than you is an asshole, and anyone who drives
slower than you is an idiot, or something to that effect
May 31, 13:38:35 PDT> *Alex*: and I think I define anyone who knows more
tech stuff than I do as a geek, and less as a luddite ;)
May 31, 13:39:40 PDT> *Eric*: So that brings up a point, whats the
difference between a geek and a nerd. Had several raging discussions on
this point lately.
May 31, 13:41:28 PDT> *dave:lifekludger*: eric. how are the chats
logged? technicall?
May 31, 13:41:37 PDT> *Michael_Janofsky*: me back now
May 31, 13:42:12 PDT> *Michael_Janofsky*: yeah, I am a geek.
May 31, 13:42:17 PDT> *Eric*: Well, I know Alex has been keeping a
browser open to log them. I dont know if there is anything more
technical than this employed currently
May 31, 13:42:38 PDT> *Eric*: as opposed to a nerd? why?
May 31, 13:42:47 PDT> *dave:lifekludger*: wot? copy/paste?
May 31, 13:42:48 PDT> *Michael_Janofsky*: wow
May 31, 13:42:53 PDT> *Michael_Janofsky*: That's funny alex
May 31, 13:43:03 PDT> *Eric*: Alex is on it for sure!
May 31, 13:43:03 PDT> *Michael_Janofsky*: (re: faster/slower luddite/geek)
May 31, 13:43:40 PDT> *Michael_Janofsky*: lol
May 31, 13:44:19 PDT> *dave:lifekludger*: just wondered about process
May 31, 13:44:23 PDT> *Michael_Janofsky*: I think PEBKAC errors occur
all too often!
May 31, 13:44:42 PDT> *Emily*: Hi all
May 31, 13:44:45 PDT> *Eric*: PEBKAC?
May 31, 13:44:49 PDT> *Eric*: Hi Emily!
May 31, 13:46:06 PDT> *Michael_Janofsky*: (Problem Exists Between
Keyboard And Chair)
May 31, 13:46:09 PDT> *Eric*: right!
May 31, 13:46:34 PDT> *Michael_Janofsky*: lol
May 31, 13:47:13 PDT> *Michael_Janofsky*: there was another one too.........
May 31, 13:47:37 PDT> *Emily*: the remote page is not working
May 31, 13:47:44 PDT> *Emily*: nevermind
May 31, 13:49:41 PDT> *Michael_Janofsky*: I was having trouble with my
computer, so I called the computer guy over to my desk. He clicked a
couple of buttons and solved the problem. As he was walking away, I
called after him, "So, what was wrong?"
May 31, 13:50:04 PDT> *Emily*: there was a problem with gabbly
May 31, 13:50:14 PDT> *Eric*: gabbly hiccup
May 31, 13:50:28 PDT> *Michael_Janofsky*: anyone know what the problem
with that computer was (see my last message)
May 31, 13:51:06 PDT> *dave:lifekludger*: power off?
May 31, 13:51:14 PDT> *Alex*: missed the question re: chat transcripts
May 31, 13:51:17 PDT> *Eric*: the user? :)
May 31, 13:51:43 PDT> *Alex*: basically the situation is that gabbly
offers rss transcripts, but if you haven't subscribed before the chat
begins, you can only get the last 200 messages
May 31, 13:51:49 PDT> *Alex*: once you are subscribed you get all
transcripts from then on
May 31, 13:52:07 PDT> *Alex*: but since they come in chunks, you end up
with something that isn't really in chronological order
May 31, 13:52:20 PDT> *Alex*: you get the most recent 10 mins, followed
by what happened 10-20 mins ago, etc
May 31, 13:52:22 PDT> *Alex*: so it's tough to read
May 31, 13:52:43 PDT> *Emily*: I thought I saw somewhere that you were
posting yesterday's
May 31, 13:52:50 PDT> *Alex*: which is why the Gabbly folks very kindly
offered to give us a complete dump of the transcripts, in chronological
order, so we could post them in a format that was easy to read
May 31, 13:53:18 PDT> *dave:lifekludger*: yeah i see that hard to read
May 31, 13:53:42 PDT> *Michael_Janofsky*: Emily-Is your problem fixed now?
May 31, 13:53:48 PDT> *Michael_Janofsky*: (sorry for not responding before)
May 31, 13:53:57 PDT> *Emily*: yes, seems to be
May 31, 13:54:03 PDT> *dave:lifekludger*: i think an option to log would
be good
May 31, 13:54:14 PDT> *Emily*: I was suppose to moderate a remote
session and I kept getting logged off
May 31, 13:57:39 PDT> *Emily*: um problem, rss feeds aren't working in
bloglines
May 31, 13:57:51 PDT> *Emily*: I am glad I subscribed to google reader
last night
May 31, 13:59:00 PDT> *Michael_Janofsky*: FYI Boris Mann's chat is
coming to an end! http://www.netsquared.org/remote
May 31, 14:01:01 PDT> *Michael_Janofsky*: Alex-you still here?
May 31, 14:02:23 PDT> *Michael_Janofsky*: Alllllllllex???
May 31, 14:05:33 PDT> *Michael_Janofsky*: Well, it looks like my time
for now is up!
May 31, 14:05:40 PDT> *Emily*: ok
May 31, 14:06:06 PDT> *Michael_Janofsky*: You can reach me @ mpjanofsky
[at] gmail [dot] comm Thanks!
May 31, 14:36:35 PDT> *Alex*: adios!
May 31, 14:36:46 PDT> *Alex*: thanks Michael
May 31, 14:41:29 PDT> *Alex*: is anyone else in here? I'm amazed at how
quiet this room has become.
May 31, 14:41:37 PDT> *gabber430*: yeppers... im here
May 31, 14:41:43 PDT> *Alex*: Maybe because everyone is so engaged in
the "making it happen" sessions?
May 31, 14:41:45 PDT> *gabber430*: and ditto
May 31, 14:41:55 PDT> *Alex*: 430, are you in San Jose or elsewhere?
May 31, 14:42:01 PDT> *gabber430*: elsewhere. MN.
May 31, 14:42:37 PDT> *Emily*: Hi
May 31, 14:42:39 PDT> *gabber430*: hrm... guess I'll have to wait for
the vlog/blog of the sessions
May 31, 14:46:43 PDT> *gabber524*: hello, has anyone seen heddy about there?
May 31, 14:49:07 PDT> *Alex*: some of the session notes are now online
May 31, 14:49:07 PDT> *Alex*: Roland Tanglao has been videoblogging
May 31, 14:49:07 PDT> *erin*: hmmmm... good point
May 31, 14:49:26 PDT> *Alex*: but the bandwidth on site has been
limited, so he's had trouble uploading
May 31, 14:49:26 PDT> *ClareWhite*: are there any audio podcasts?
May 31, 14:50:27 PDT> *Alex*: there will be some -- Roland I think has
done some
May 31, 14:50:29 PDT> *Emily*: where are the session notes?
May 31, 14:50:54 PDT> *erin*: anybody here have experience with vlogging?
May 31, 14:51:28 PDT> *Alex*: Emily, standby for URLS ;)
May 31, 14:51:37 PDT> *Emily*: ok
May 31, 14:52:16 PDT> *Alex*: ok, official session notes aren't
available yet
May 31, 14:52:30 PDT> *Emily*: that's what I thought
May 31, 14:52:31 PDT> *erin*: makes sense... sessions are still going on
May 31, 14:52:37 PDT> *erin*: but thanks for looking!
May 31, 14:52:45 PDT> *Alex*: but if you go to the conference schedule
(http://www.netsquared.org/conference/conference-schedule) and click on
any of the session titles from yesterday, you'll find notes, comments,
and in the right-hand sidebar, links to blog posts about each sess
May 31, 14:52:47 PDT> *Alex*: ion
May 31, 14:53:29 PDT> *Emily*: thanks Alex
May 31, 15:17:43 PDT> *Michael_Janofsky*: anyone here right now?
May 31, 15:25:37 PDT> *Emily*: I just came in
May 31, 16:19:35 PDT> *MJanofsky*: Who's here now?
May 31, 16:20:12 PDT> *MJanofsky*: ("can you hear me now? good. now?
good..." -Verizon Wireless Commercial)
May 31, 16:26:08 PDT> *MJanofsky*: Alex- did u catch my message?
May 31, 16:42:23 PDT> *MJanofsky*: Looks Like the NetSquared Conference
is coming to an end shortly!!!! It's been FANTASTIC!!!!
May 31, 16:52:09 PDT> *Alex*: it has been great, hasn't it?
May 31, 16:58:10 PDT> *mseyfang-AUS*: conference ending - excellent, I
just found the 'hallway' ;-)
May 31, 16:58:22 PDT> *mseyfang-AUS*: better late than never
May 31, 16:59:23 PDT> *mseyfang-AUS*: anyone else here attending the
conference 'remotely'?
May 31, 17:01:53 PDT> *MJanofsky*: (raises hand)
May 31, 17:05:54 PDT> *mseyfang-AUS*: Is any audio from the conference
available yet?
May 31, 17:06:06 PDT> *MJanofsky*: I'm not sure (alex...)
May 31, 17:08:40 PDT> *Alex*: no audio yet, I don't think
May 31, 17:08:58 PDT> *MJanofsky*: Not yet.....
May 31, 17:08:59 PDT> *Alex*: we've had some video/audio bloggers but I
don't think they've been able to upload in real time
May 31, 17:08:59 PDT> *mseyfang-AUS*: is it likely to appear anywhere
other than your odeo feed: http://odeo.com/channel/41065/view
May 31, 17:09:07 PDT> *Alex*: a lot more stuff should appear on the site
in the next week
May 31, 17:10:02 PDT> *mseyfang-AUS*: hmm - would have been way cool for
us internationals to have one or two sessions per day posted in the same
half of the day as the session
May 31, 17:10:41 PDT> *mseyfang-AUS*: audio gives great cues for
connections between people who havent met
May 31, 17:12:47 PDT> *Alex*: mseyfang, can you add that to
http://www.netsquared.org/next-actions as a suggestion for the next con?
it wasn't practical this year due to bandwidth limitations but if the
team hears demand for this then bandwidth and audio options will factor
May 31, 17:12:57 PDT> *Alex*: more heavily in planning future events
May 31, 17:13:57 PDT> *Alex*: ok, I've added "organize a reunion" as a
next action so folks go & comment on this
(http://www.netsquared.org/run-a-remote-conference-reunion) if you think
it's a good idea, would participate, or could help organize/find speakers
May 31, 17:14:19 PDT> *Alex*: I have to log off -- thanks again to
everyone for making the hallway such a lively part of the conference.
May 31, 17:14:31 PDT> *Alex*: You all saved me from feeling dreadfully
envious of the folks in San Jose!!
May 31, 17:14:49 PDT> *mseyfang-AUS*: sure thing, will update
next-actions with a summary post of feedback
May 31, 17:18:34 PDT> *Rob Cottingham*: That URL for the mashup:
http://dougherty.ning.com/
May 31, 17:19:04 PDT> *Rob Cottingham*: The blogs created were at
http://net2coolbloggers.blogspot.com/ and http://interplast.blogs.com/net2/
May 31, 17:19:44 PDT> *Rob Cottingham*: (The last two comments are
related to the takeaways from this aft's sprint sessions)
May 31, 17:26:28 PDT> *MJanofsky*: Well, it's been good.
May 31, 17:26:31 PDT> *MJanofsky*: Good night everyone.
Hitler video that they got blasted for; nobody at MoveOn central liked
it, but they're tarred with it
May 31, 12:00:48 PDT> *dave:lifekludger*: jayne: wot do you think?
May 31, 12:00:59 PDT> *Ed*: They get blamed for things their members do
May 31, 12:01:03 PDT> *Jayne*: Sharron is going crazy over what the
MoveOn person is saying and what she has experienced with MoveOn.
May 31, 12:01:15 PDT> *Jayne*: She must just not be aware at all.
May 31, 12:01:38 PDT> *hollis*: shes not very tech saavy..is she??
May 31, 12:01:41 PDT> *gabber308*: I think she is absorbed with her Mom
thing
May 31, 12:01:50 PDT> *Suz 10b*: dave can u clarify what you want jayne
to comment on?
May 31, 12:02:02 PDT> *Jayne*: Dave asks what I think... about the
Hitler video?
May 31, 12:02:05 PDT> *Suz 10b*: no, but not everyone needs to be tech
savvy hollis
May 31, 12:02:09 PDT> *Jayne*: About how that got through?
May 31, 12:02:18 PDT> *hollis*: thats true
May 31, 12:02:23 PDT> *gabber435*: she's uncomfrotable with being on the
spot
May 31, 12:02:27 PDT> *hollis*: Im just surprised
May 31, 12:02:32 PDT> *TK*: Where are we going with any of this?
May 31, 12:02:38 PDT> *Suz 10b*: right
May 31, 12:02:46 PDT> *ScottC*: any issue with her commercial interests
in her book, Ruby?
May 31, 12:02:53 PDT> *Jayne*: You know, volunteers need training, they
need policies, they need to know what their boundaries are... but in a
way, that was bound to happen. And I think what was worse was MoveOn's
response to the video, rather than how it got posted.
May 31, 12:02:59 PDT> *gabber435*: this is interesting, a leading social
network, that's not using facilitation tools
May 31, 12:03:09 PDT> *Ruby*: We are holding their feet to the
grassroots fire, TK.
May 31, 12:03:13 PDT> *gabber435*: i'm not even responding to the moveon
emails any more
May 31, 12:03:24 PDT> *Ed*: What was their response to the video? I
thought they just took it down, said it was user-generated content
May 31, 12:03:46 PDT> *Ed*: [which it was]
May 31, 12:03:52 PDT> *TK*: They are about action, not a news bureau
(with fact checking etc.)
May 31, 12:03:55 PDT> *seadog*: is it just me, or is she wander way off
topic?
May 31, 12:04:01 PDT> *Scott Baker*: agreed
May 31, 12:04:04 PDT> *gabber308*: I think that Move On has a
traditional viewpoint of what the Internet can do
May 31, 12:04:14 PDT> *Jayne*: Yes, it was user-generated content. Was
it wrong? I think it could have turned into a major conversation. But it
was just taken down.
May 31, 12:04:33 PDT> *Sharron*: MoveOn woman is way off topic.
May 31, 12:04:35 PDT> *Scott Baker*: Did she just say having a baby
causes poverty?
May 31, 12:04:44 PDT> *seadog*: welcome, Daniell!
May 31, 12:04:44 PDT> *DaniellKrawczyk*: is there an audio stream?
May 31, 12:04:51 PDT> *gabber308*: Lets just say motherhood doesnt help
your economic potential
May 31, 12:04:53 PDT> *DaniellKrawczyk*: hey Scott!
May 31, 12:05:00 PDT> *Scott Baker*: hey there
May 31, 12:05:00 PDT> *Suz 10b*: no but I will try to convey what is
happening
May 31, 12:05:04 PDT> *Suz 10b*: i would love some help
May 31, 12:05:05 PDT> *Ed*: I think it was good they took the video
down, but maybe we should agree to disagree on that...
May 31, 12:05:07 PDT> *gabber308*: Hey Daniell - LGD here
May 31, 12:05:08 PDT> *Suz 10b*: ivan acare to help?
May 31, 12:05:15 PDT> *Sharron*: She is more intereted in MomsRising at
this point - so she wants to talk about that rather than politics and MoveOn
May 31, 12:05:24 PDT> *Ruby*: MOtherhood is economic challenge.
May 31, 12:05:25 PDT> *Suz 10b*: ivan, do you care to help transcribing?
May 31, 12:05:27 PDT> *dave:lifekludger*: ta suz
May 31, 12:05:34 PDT> *Suz 10b*: ta dave
May 31, 12:05:35 PDT> *hollis*: but how does what she is saying connect
to why we are here
May 31, 12:05:36 PDT> *gabber278*: bring back amy
May 31, 12:05:37 PDT> *seadog*: Micah - let's get back to the discussion
at hand!
May 31, 12:05:39 PDT> *gabber435*: Michah, please stop her!
May 31, 12:05:43 PDT> *gabber308*: AMY AMY AMY
May 31, 12:05:45 PDT> *Jayne*: I care about this issue -- but I don't
get the connection to why we are here.
May 31, 12:05:49 PDT> *hollis*: we want amy
May 31, 12:05:55 PDT> *Jayne*: Please, back on topic!!!
May 31, 12:05:56 PDT> *gabber278*: daniell, kp here, can you get amy back?
May 31, 12:06:01 PDT> *gabber435*: more amy!
May 31, 12:06:05 PDT> *Ed*: WTF?
May 31, 12:06:08 PDT> *Scott Baker*: Farming communities might not feel
as though having a child causes poverty. I am no farmer, but I thought
it was important labor for them.
May 31, 12:06:15 PDT> *Ruby*: I thoguht there as audio thing for later, Suz.
May 31, 12:06:25 PDT> *Suz 10b*: y, that's true ruby
May 31, 12:06:29 PDT> *Ruby*: WAS an audio thing...
May 31, 12:06:30 PDT> *gabber435*: hmmm, mommy bloggers, we're gettin' there
May 31, 12:06:35 PDT> *Suz 10b*: thx, but fo rthe sake of the people now
May 31, 12:06:45 PDT> *Ruby*: The majority of humans live uin urban
communitires, Scott Baker.
May 31, 12:06:50 PDT> *dave:lifekludger*: oh, ok, re audio
May 31, 12:06:52 PDT> *Jayne*: MoveOn could learn alot about volunteer
involvement and volunteers in leadership roles from Blogher.
May 31, 12:06:56 PDT> *gabber308*: Does mommy blogging have anything to
do with blogHer?
May 31, 12:07:11 PDT> *Suz 10b*: and all could read this transcrition
later via the RSS feedd
May 31, 12:07:28 PDT> *Ed*: If other organization models are better than
MoveOn's, those org models will overcome them.
May 31, 12:07:38 PDT> *gabber308*: Does anyone know the status of the
podcasts on these sessions?
May 31, 12:07:43 PDT> *dave:lifekludger*: will have to tie both together
May 31, 12:08:01 PDT> *Ruby*: 308, check the NetSquared website later.
May 31, 12:08:06 PDT> *Ed*: Right now, the press, and politicians, are
more likely to listen to a central MoveOn voice than a cloud of people
May 31, 12:08:09 PDT> *DaniellKrawczyk*: Kari, I don't even what's going
on (Re: Amy). Though I did just finish sitting in on a great online
session in the remote chatroom on Creative Commons
May 31, 12:08:14 PDT> *Suz 10b*: it may be easier to read he follow up
article on TechSoup and the live bloggers than to wade through this
May 31, 12:08:26 PDT> *Jayne*: Can I join the Amy Goodman political
party? She's amazing.
May 31, 12:08:48 PDT> *dave:lifekludger*: suz is this chat saved?
May 31, 12:09:07 PDT> *Suz 10b*: dave, yes in the RSS feed, but if you
haven't subscribed to it
May 31, 12:09:14 PDT> *marnie*: as i understand it, we're getting a
transcript from the folks at gabbly.com
May 31, 12:09:19 PDT> *Suz 10b*: someone from Net2 has already done so
May 31, 12:09:32 PDT> *Ruby*: I don't want to hear about Joan's issues! I
May 31, 12:09:32 PDT> *Ruby*: Yes, Amy!
May 31, 12:09:34 PDT> *gabber435*: Jayne, Amy is amazing! I vote for her
as a thought leader for our social networking/social justice voices (per
Rheingold's recommendation of yday)
May 31, 12:09:38 PDT> *gabber308*: Amy is taking charge!
May 31, 12:09:39 PDT> *Suz 10b*: aaron P has subscribed to the RSS
May 31, 12:09:45 PDT> *seadog*: i don't think this is streaming in any
format. it's all being recorded for archiving
May 31, 12:09:56 PDT> *dave:lifekludger*: I gather Amy good, Micah good.
rest not so.
May 31, 12:10:01 PDT> *Ruby*: There arev tons more as smart as Amy.
May 31, 12:10:02 PDT> *Ruby*: Read blogs!
May 31, 12:10:07 PDT> *hollis*: dont let the moderator off the hook either
May 31, 12:10:09 PDT> *Jayne*: I would love for Amy to challenge me with
some really tough questions -- would be a life-changing experience.
May 31, 12:10:10 PDT> *Suz 10b*: no it's not streaming
May 31, 12:10:15 PDT> *BBravo*: Hi, this is Britt Bravo from Net2.
Re:podcasting, Cisco was nice enought to record all the sessions for us.
We will be loading the recordings on the Net2 podcast:
May 31, 12:10:16 PDT> *BBravo*: http://www.odeo.com/channel/41065/view
May 31, 12:10:24 PDT> *Setherplast*: the immoderater ought to be pushing
this beyond the whole moms thing. we get it
May 31, 12:10:26 PDT> *DaniellKrawczyk*: Did anyone catch the
presentation that Drazen Pantic did? I just read about it today and it
makes me really regret being on the other end of the country
May 31, 12:10:28 PDT> *Jayne*: Amy Good. Micah good. Rest not so. Dave good.
May 31, 12:10:28 PDT> *gabber308*: Thanks for that concrete info
May 31, 12:10:34 PDT> *gabber308*: Drazen cancelled
May 31, 12:10:44 PDT> *DaniellKrawczyk*: then again, nevermind
May 31, 12:11:00 PDT> *Suz 10b*:
http://www.netsquared.org/conference-tracking info on remote conference
tracking
May 31, 12:11:26 PDT> *dave:lifekludger*: ahhh ta suz
May 31, 12:11:45 PDT> *Suz 10b*: np dave HTH
May 31, 12:11:51 PDT> *TK*: More questions, without the earlier ones
getting answered.
May 31, 12:12:06 PDT> *Suz 10b*: raise yer hand and ask TK
May 31, 12:12:10 PDT> *gabber308*: Question Time: How do we make sure
that we are not just talking to ourselves?
May 31, 12:12:11 PDT> *MSifry*: which early question do you feel wasn't
answered?
May 31, 12:12:13 PDT> *Suz 10b*: (or are you remote?)
May 31, 12:13:26 PDT> *hollis*: great point Amy
May 31, 12:13:26 PDT> *Ruby*: Most of them, Michah.
May 31, 12:13:26 PDT> *Ed*: Q: Is it a problem that the tools we're
talking about using are corporate-owned? MySpace by Murdoch's NewsCorp,
text messaging by the telcos that are working with NSA?
May 31, 12:13:26 PDT> *gabber308*: Amy sees a political opportunity
because things are so bad across the nation
May 31, 12:13:30 PDT> *TK*: I didn't ask them, but those that took the
time to do so, should have at least received answers in some form. Maybe
it will happen later online.
May 31, 12:13:30 PDT> *gabber308*: You bet its a problem that these
tools are corporate-ly owned.
May 31, 12:13:30 PDT> *MSifry*: we didn't cover Unity 08 but that is
preety far afield
May 31, 12:13:30 PDT> *MSifry*: we covered one to many, how to connect
supporters
May 31, 12:13:30 PDT> *gabber308*: The intersection of network and
content is why net neutrality is such a pressing issue!!
May 31, 12:13:32 PDT> *MSifry*: i should raise the immigration issue
May 31, 12:13:35 PDT> *Ruby*: OK OK.
May 31, 12:13:36 PDT> *Setherplast*: Ed: Chris Messina treats his email
like the gov't is reading
May 31, 12:13:40 PDT> *MSifry*: but i doubt they have much to say on it
May 31, 12:13:41 PDT> *Setherplast*: I think he's right
May 31, 12:13:48 PDT> *Ruby*: I can't remember all of them.
May 31, 12:13:51 PDT> *Jayne*: Yes, the question about how to use these
tools to oppose corporate dominance -- please address this!!
May 31, 12:13:53 PDT> *gabber308*: Does he write in code?
May 31, 12:14:08 PDT> *Scott Baker*: Nice thought Jayne...
May 31, 12:14:14 PDT> *TK*: That's my point. Who wrote them down,
May 31, 12:14:20 PDT> *Ruby*: We need to speak out so we can find each
other!
May 31, 12:14:41 PDT> *MSifry*: i wrote them down
May 31, 12:14:42 PDT> *Jayne*: It was SHarron's thought -- I was just
seconded it. She's the great thinker. I'm just a worker and a wannabe.
May 31, 12:14:44 PDT> *Setherplast*: Go Amy!
May 31, 12:14:54 PDT> *Suz 10b*: they are now translating their content
into spanish growing in thousands
May 31, 12:15:19 PDT> *Jayne*: Amy -- I'm just so in love... my
boyfriend will be disappointed.
May 31, 12:15:19 PDT> *gabber308*: I would be so proud to be Amy
Goodman's mother
May 31, 12:15:25 PDT> *TK*: Great. Will they be answered at some point?
May 31, 12:15:42 PDT> *ScottC*: are corporations an absolute negative?
May 31, 12:15:42 PDT> *Jayne*: Does Amy have a cult I could join?
May 31, 12:15:42 PDT> *MSifry*: TK, we covered some of them...which one
are you missing?
May 31, 12:15:49 PDT> *Ed*: www.verifiedvotingfoundation.org
May 31, 12:15:56 PDT> *Suz 10b*: Q; poor quality of electronic voting
system vulnerable to hacking , irrelevant to talk about other stuff
while electronic voting sux
May 31, 12:15:57 PDT> *Jayne*: I want to say it again -- will the
question on how to use the Internet to oppose corporate
interests/dominance be addressed.
May 31, 12:16:04 PDT> *quixotic-ivan*: ok i'm back now
May 31, 12:16:10 PDT> *gabber308*: You could join the public access
media movement. She is one of our lead thinkers
May 31, 12:16:24 PDT> *ScottC*: Jayne
May 31, 12:16:24 PDT> *hollis*: people have been raiding voting boxes
for years.. ever heard of LBJ?
May 31, 12:16:24 PDT> *quixotic-ivan*: hey have i mentioned how i helped
to start the diebold expos√?¬©....
May 31, 12:16:38 PDT> *quixotic-ivan*: (sorry it was my 15 mins of fame)
May 31, 12:16:46 PDT> *gabber278*: we need to figure out a way to bridge
the public access tv movemnt with all these great new tools.
May 31, 12:16:50 PDT> *gabber741*: Verified Voting has moved beyond just
electronic voting, and is dealing with non-electronic voting issues too
May 31, 12:16:51 PDT> *Jayne*: Jayne, Jayne, that's mah name.
May 31, 12:16:52 PDT> *gabber379*: not sure if this still stands but in
2004: http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/archives/002068.php
May 31, 12:16:55 PDT> *ScottC*: are corporate interests/dominance all bad?
May 31, 12:16:59 PDT> *Suz 10b*: no but verified.org has many problems
May 31, 12:17:10 PDT> *ScottC*: or can their motivations be harnessed
for good things?
May 31, 12:17:11 PDT> *gabber308*: Corporations have one goal: to
maximize profit
May 31, 12:17:19 PDT> *Scott Baker*: I think the thing about
corporations that they are not open for public participation.
May 31, 12:17:22 PDT> *Suz 10b*: they left hundreds of volunteers in the
lurch
May 31, 12:17:29 PDT> *gabber308*: To the extent that corporations work
to compromise democracy we need to question
May 31, 12:17:30 PDT> *Suz 10b*: without email replies
May 31, 12:17:33 PDT> *Scott Baker*: In education, that suggests they do
good enough, not max potential
May 31, 12:17:46 PDT> *ScottC*: 308 - is that bad or can that be leveraged
May 31, 12:17:46 PDT> *Suz 10b*: terribly mismanaged
May 31, 12:17:46 PDT> *quixotic-ivan*: in a lot of states (esp. western
states) you can request "absentee" ballots even if you're not going
anywhere -- thus you can get paper ballots
May 31, 12:17:46 PDT> *Jayne*: Scott C, you are right. I love Microsoft
dominance. Seriously, corporate interests aren't bad. I am very fond of
many corporations. But corporate dominance -- bad, yes. Walmart is bad.
May 31, 12:17:46 PDT> *TK*: Demos don't have the balls. They lack the
courage that Amy wears well.
May 31, 12:17:46 PDT> *gabber741*: Corporate interests aren't all bad,
but one can be concerned.
May 31, 12:17:56 PDT> *gabber308*: to the extent that corporations work
to prevent true competition in the marketplace (re: current telecom
bills): they are bad
May 31, 12:18:16 PDT> *gabber278*: amy has articulated exactly why the
public access tv movment is so critical and now we have new and better
tools.. connecting people to tools for social change..
May 31, 12:18:24 PDT> *Ed*: Suz 10b, I'm wondering what you think the
problems with Verified Voting are.
May 31, 12:18:30 PDT> *ScottC*: no shades of gray with walmart?
May 31, 12:18:38 PDT> *Jayne*: It would have been cool to have some of
the anti-Walmart folks here who are using the Net to organize. Heck, I
would have liked to have heard from more right-wing based net organizers.
May 31, 12:18:47 PDT> *gabber308*: Walmart is cheap but why are they
cheap? What is the real cost of the goods they sell?
May 31, 12:18:50 PDT> *ScottC*: isn't an efficient supply chain of
goods, a common good?
May 31, 12:18:52 PDT> *Ed*: [I guess I should mention I work with them.]
May 31, 12:18:56 PDT> *hollis*: the supreme court conciders a
corporation a body with similar rights as a 'real person'...scary
May 31, 12:19:02 PDT> *Jayne*: Walmart Watch does some great work and I
would have liked to have heard from them.
May 31, 12:19:10 PDT> *gabber308*: Efficient supply chain achieve
through price fixing
May 31, 12:19:11 PDT> *quixotic-ivan*: michael silberman has worked on
the seiu's walmart campaign
May 31, 12:19:14 PDT> *Suz 10b*: Q-- what is appropriate technology for
moveon.org? Regardless of the tool, we need to hear more about cultural
sensitivity arouond the tools, not everything is english-centric, need
to use apt tool to meet our audience
May 31, 12:19:20 PDT> *hollis*: Walmart has more people in uniform than
the US military
May 31, 12:19:22 PDT> *Jayne*: But to hear everyone I want to hear from
would take a month....
May 31, 12:19:37 PDT> *quixotic-ivan*: if you haven't already, you
should watch the documentary "the corporation"
May 31, 12:19:48 PDT> *quixotic-ivan*: http://www.thecorporation.com/
May 31, 12:19:49 PDT> *Ruby*: I feell like although MoveOn and
DemocracyNow are doing a great speaking out on issues that I care about,
but I doln't feel liek they are empowering ME to speak out on them.
May 31, 12:19:50 PDT> *ScottC*: there are unintended outcomes
May 31, 12:20:19 PDT> *gabber308*: But you have all this personal media
at your disposal, how can you say you are not empowered??????????
May 31, 12:20:19 PDT> *Daniell*: maybe that's how we'll solve the
troop-shortage problem... recruit "greeters" like Walmart does
May 31, 12:20:21 PDT> *ScottC*: Ruby - you want more "don't speak. Point."
May 31, 12:20:27 PDT> *gabber678*: that's exactly iy
May 31, 12:20:29 PDT> *gabber678*: it
May 31, 12:20:29 PDT> *Scott Baker*: I second the tip quixotic-ivan. The
corporation is a very thought-provoking movie.
May 31, 12:20:47 PDT> *gabber678*: I want to know the secret sauce
behind seeding grassroots
May 31, 12:20:49 PDT> *Suz 10b*: answer-- we also didn't reference
mobile technologies either, we need to listen and see what tools are
working and go with those
May 31, 12:20:51 PDT> *Ruby*: I didn't say I'm not empowere3d. I am, but
not thanks to them.
May 31, 12:21:07 PDT> *quixotic-ivan*: 678, you mean astroturfing?
May 31, 12:21:32 PDT> *gabber678*: rather than delving into the aspects
of the specific issues these folks are working on
May 31, 12:21:32 PDT> *gabber308*: There are alot of people who are
animated as a result of listenting/watching to Democracy Now.
May 31, 12:21:32 PDT> *Jayne*: I would like to hear from some WTC
organizers from Seattle who used networking tech to organize -- maybe
next year.
May 31, 12:21:32 PDT> *gabber678*: "astroturfing?"
May 31, 12:21:38 PDT> *geodog*: does anyone feel like they have
addressed Leda's question about why we are doing so poorly politically
if we are doing so well on the net (she said it better)
May 31, 12:21:45 PDT> *ScottC*: fake grassroots efforts
May 31, 12:21:56 PDT> *ScottC*: 678
May 31, 12:21:56 PDT> *Ruby*: TTrue, 308.
May 31, 12:21:56 PDT> *quixotic-ivan*: corporations who set up "fake
grassroots" sites (like the anti-net neutrality campaign)
May 31, 12:21:56 PDT> *hollis*: dont laugh...Walmart tried to get the
contract to provide uniforms for the military (Hillary was on the inital
board of Walmart back in arkansas)
May 31, 12:22:11 PDT> *gabber678*: ah
May 31, 12:22:27 PDT> *quixotic-ivan*: jayne, i was suprised there were
few references to indymedia in the ohmynews discussion yesterday --
citizen journalism has been around for awhile
May 31, 12:22:27 PDT> *Jayne*: geodog -- this was talked about in a
workshop yesterday -- really good stuff. It was from a guy formerly with
the Dean campaign.
May 31, 12:22:27 PDT> *TK*: I feel like Paul Saffo
May 31, 12:22:28 PDT> *gabber308*: Ruby, I think that your question is a
good one. So what that we have all these tools at our disposal? How do
you move from grass roots to democratic action???
May 31, 12:22:39 PDT> *aaron*: good point re: indymedia.
May 31, 12:22:40 PDT> *gabber678*: no, I mean more along the lines of
what did these folks learn as they were building their incredibly
well-known orgs
May 31, 12:22:55 PDT> *aaron*: it's conspicuously missing from the
conversations these days
May 31, 12:22:55 PDT> *quixotic-ivan*: also there are a number of lefty
tech collectives -- riseup.net, oat.tao.ca, eggplant.coop -- that do
really great work for small community orgs.
May 31, 12:23:00 PDT> *gabber678*: I almost said successful, but that's
another missing piece -- what specific actions resulted from their
impressive mindshare?
May 31, 12:23:03 PDT> *Holly Ross*: I think we've also failed to talk
about whether or not all this is affecting decision makers.
May 31, 12:23:17 PDT> *Holly Ross*: whether/how
May 31, 12:23:22 PDT> *ScottC*: citizen journalism has been around in
the US since the Revolutionary war...
May 31, 12:23:23 PDT> *TK*: Yeah others are doing what you are doing, in
opposition to your interests
May 31, 12:23:28 PDT> *gabber308*: Holly, it certainly affects
mainstream media. They are constantly trolling these alternative sources
for news tips
May 31, 12:23:34 PDT> *Jayne*: Holly Ross is making yet another fabulous
point.
May 31, 12:23:47 PDT> *Cyber-Yenta*: I (heart) Holly
May 31, 12:23:47 PDT> *hollis*: holly, you rock!
May 31, 12:23:49 PDT> *gabber308*: There are two things that affect
decision makers:
May 31, 12:23:54 PDT> *gabber308*: Money and Votes
May 31, 12:24:04 PDT> *quixotic-ivan*: well, it's more than votes
May 31, 12:24:06 PDT> *quixotic-ivan*: it's consent
May 31, 12:24:09 PDT> *Cyber-Yenta*: It reallly is hard to do outcomes
measurement with electronic advocacy.
May 31, 12:24:09 PDT> *hollis*: the two things are really money and money
May 31, 12:24:10 PDT> *quixotic-ivan*: people remove consent, rulers fall
May 31, 12:24:24 PDT> *ES*: Holly - doesn't that go back to the need for
Elite's as discussed yesterday?
May 31, 12:24:27 PDT> *quixotic-ivan*: plenty of dictators have been
overthrown by nonviolent poor people's movements
May 31, 12:24:39 PDT> *TK*: Now Amy sounds like Paul Saffo
May 31, 12:24:40 PDT> *quixotic-ivan*: ooh ooh lemme plug my four types
of elites post!
May 31, 12:24:47 PDT> *gabber308*: Yeah Money. But inthe end, votes get
them elected. If they think political action represents local voters
they feel compelled to pay attention
May 31, 12:24:54 PDT> *Ruby*: Holly 7 geodog are both getting at the
point: what impact is this having?
May 31, 12:25:00 PDT> *quixotic-ivan*:
http://netsquared.org/blog/quixotic/different-kinds-of-elites-and-different-kinds-of-elitism
May 31, 12:25:18 PDT> *Holly Ross*: my gabbly connection keeps timing out!
May 31, 12:25:22 PDT> *TK*: Technology is a dual-edged sword
May 31, 12:25:41 PDT> *aaron*: technology is a dual edged word
May 31, 12:25:45 PDT> *dave:lifekludger*: suz: wots time there?
May 31, 12:25:46 PDT> *gabber308*: Mobilizing people through electronic
tools is effective as far as we are able to link people power with
VOTES. It is our only defense against money influence
May 31, 12:25:49 PDT> *hollis*: no matter how much money is raised 95%
of congress gets re-elected...why
May 31, 12:25:54 PDT> *Suz 10b*: time is 12:25pm
May 31, 12:26:17 PDT> *Jayne*: REmember how Ben Affleck campaigned all
over the place for the Demos and then it turned out he wasn't even
registered to vote?
May 31, 12:26:17 PDT> *quixotic-ivan*: there are money elites and their
are traditional power elites (e.g. elected officials) but there are
other kinds of elites too
May 31, 12:26:31 PDT> *Jayne*: We have to get people registered and then
get them to the polls.
May 31, 12:26:45 PDT> *gabber308*: I liked the cellphone registration
project from Vota Latina
May 31, 12:26:47 PDT> *quixotic-ivan*: just like there are campaigns
that raise influence through money, but there are campaigns that raise
influence other ways as well
May 31, 12:26:56 PDT> *dave:lifekludger*: so this sesssion- 11:00 AM
12:30 PM Grassroots, Netroots, and the End and Beginning of Politics
May 31, 12:26:58 PDT> *quixotic-ivan*: voting is important, but only if
it leads to more participatory democracy
May 31, 12:26:58 PDT> *Holly Ross*: I think we should challenge
MoveOn.org. They invested VERY heavily in the 04 elections, but "we"
didn't win.
May 31, 12:27:02 PDT> *Suz 10b*: yes, dave
May 31, 12:27:10 PDT> *Holly Ross*: And we have to ask why.
May 31, 12:27:11 PDT> *hollis*: thats the right direction...cell phone
voting
May 31, 12:27:12 PDT> *quixotic-ivan*: the goal shouldn't be push people
hard every four years and otherwise stay out of the ghettos
May 31, 12:27:14 PDT> *dave:lifekludger*: ahhh....
May 31, 12:27:19 PDT> *Suz 10b*: go holly
May 31, 12:27:22 PDT> *Suz 10b*: i dare you
May 31, 12:27:26 PDT> *TK*: We can get them to the polls, but can we
educate them how to vote
May 31, 12:27:27 PDT> *quixotic-ivan*: the goal should be acutally
working to improve democracy all the time
May 31, 12:27:29 PDT> *Holly Ross*: I'm not that brave
May 31, 12:27:35 PDT> *Suz 10b*: for a beer?
May 31, 12:27:37 PDT> *Ed*: Some would say we didn't win because of
voter irregularities in Ohio...
May 31, 12:27:38 PDT> *Suz 10b*: or two?
May 31, 12:27:41 PDT> *Suz 10b*: j/k
May 31, 12:27:49 PDT> *gabber638*: yes holly i thought it was
interesting Joan said the issue was what they stand for, when nearly all
the emails i get from MoveOn are about blocking or stopping things
May 31, 12:27:50 PDT> *Holly Ross*: Sadly, we're out of time!
May 31, 12:27:52 PDT> *Ruby*: I don't think you can totally blame them,
when the playing field is not balance. But you raise a good point, Holly.
May 31, 12:27:52 PDT> *Jayne*: We have to ask why they wouldn't talk
about the voting improprieties. Despite so many of their members asking
for them to say so.
May 31, 12:28:06 PDT> *Ed*: But if MoveOn isn't getting the job done,
time to start an allied, better organization
May 31, 12:28:12 PDT> *Jayne*: Good point, Gabber
May 31, 12:28:24 PDT> *Holly Ross*: Not balanced? Because the Right
spends more? How do you mean Ruby?
May 31, 12:28:26 PDT> *Suz 10b*: why not infiltrate the already existing
powerful org, moveon?
May 31, 12:28:27 PDT> *Cyber-Yenta*: How do prove who had what impact,
when the chain of causality is so long and complicated?
May 31, 12:28:27 PDT> *dave:lifekludger*: phew goes holly
May 31, 12:28:30 PDT> *Jayne*: Good point Ruby. Good point Ed. Good
point most everyone.
May 31, 12:28:33 PDT> *quixotic-ivan*: moveon as the afl-cio...hmm...
May 31, 12:28:38 PDT> *gabber308*: It takes all kinds of organizations
to win. We can't put all our eggs int he Move on basket
May 31, 12:28:44 PDT> *Setherplast*: I think we have to look at more
community based models. DailyKos seems to be empowering people to take
part, MoveOn seems to annoy us with emails
May 31, 12:28:49 PDT> *Suz 10b*: but they have the membership
May 31, 12:28:49 PDT> *TK*: "if you don't like the news, go out and make
some of your own" Scoop Nisker
May 31, 12:29:01 PDT> *Rob Cottingham*: That's a pretty good question
there, Deborah
May 31, 12:29:02 PDT> *Jayne*: I like infiltrating existing orgs and
changing stuff. I intend to do it with several orgs when I return to the
USA some day. Just you wait.....
May 31, 12:29:02 PDT> *Ruby*: This is TOM standing up.
May 31, 12:29:09 PDT> *Ed*: I think a lot of people and orgs avoid the
voting theft issue because it makes them look like conspiracy theorists
May 31, 12:29:10 PDT> *Jayne*: The Rotary Club will never be the same.
May 31, 12:29:22 PDT> *Suz 10b*: i agree with jayne
May 31, 12:29:22 PDT> *Cyber-Yenta*: I'm constantly tearing my hair out
over this question, Rob.
May 31, 12:29:28 PDT> *Ed*: Kos of Daily Kos won't talk about it, for
example, though site users do
May 31, 12:29:35 PDT> *Scott Baker*: I used to work at the Rotary HQ...
don't forget to stop there. :-)
May 31, 12:29:35 PDT> *Cyber-Yenta*: (You can see that it's pretty
thinned out.)
May 31, 12:29:40 PDT> *Holly Ross*: I think that's right Cyber Yenta,
it's hard to give blame or kudos for any specific thing, but you can see
trends and general caualities
May 31, 12:29:41 PDT> *gabber638*: (aka 648) and we need an org that
motivates people around some tangible things about what we will do...
NOT yet another org focused on blocking things
May 31, 12:29:47 PDT> *Suz 10b*: archive.org shout out for the rmote
peeps here
May 31, 12:29:49 PDT> *Jayne*: It's true, Ed. Where's my tin foil hat?
But seriously -- there is soooo much documentation.
May 31, 12:29:52 PDT> *Ruby*: Because the right has changed the laws to
benefit themslves, Holly.
May 31, 12:29:56 PDT> *Jayne*: Archive.org rocks.
May 31, 12:29:56 PDT> *TK*: I agree Archive.org is great
May 31, 12:30:07 PDT> *Suz 10b*: email democracynow.org has job oppening
May 31, 12:30:07 PDT> *Holly Ross*: which laws? districting?
May 31, 12:30:09 PDT> *Ruby*: DN! is hiring a web helper!
May 31, 12:30:12 PDT> *Suz 10b*: to manage online bookstore
May 31, 12:30:14 PDT> *Suz 10b*: pass it on
May 31, 12:30:20 PDT> *Holly Ross*: It's tough to argue that campaign
finance laws hurt the Dems
May 31, 12:30:25 PDT> *Cyber-Yenta*: I'm always asking people, "so, how
many whales did you save with that web site?" or email campaign, or
whatever.
May 31, 12:30:27 PDT> *gabber308*: You name the category of law, they
are working to change it to serve corporate interests.
May 31, 12:30:28 PDT> *Jayne*: Can I be Amy Goodman's personal assistant
May 31, 12:30:28 PDT> *Jayne*: ?
May 31, 12:30:29 PDT> *hollis*: Amy just took all of Jayne√¢¬?¬?s volunteers
May 31, 12:30:30 PDT> *Suz 10b*: 47 gabbers!!
May 31, 12:30:30 PDT> *Cyber-Yenta*: No one knows, really.
May 31, 12:30:33 PDT> *Ed*: As much documentation as there is, the
mainstream press won't "admit" it, and people like MoveOn and Kos want
to be able to talk to those folks
May 31, 12:30:41 PDT> *Ruby*: Great job, Micah.
May 31, 12:30:43 PDT> *Jayne*: Oh, Hollis, it's so true...
May 31, 12:30:52 PDT> *quixotic-ivan*: mail@democracynow.org
May 31, 12:30:53 PDT> *Suz 10b*: mail@democracynow.org
May 31, 12:30:56 PDT> *geodog*: no, he didn't pick up Leda's question
May 31, 12:30:59 PDT> *Suz 10b*: ivan, my echo
May 31, 12:30:59 PDT> *gabber308*: Love this room! See ya
May 31, 12:31:07 PDT> *Suz 10b*: see you all after lunch
May 31, 12:31:09 PDT> *Ed*: Eat
May 31, 12:31:12 PDT> *quixotic-ivan*: see ya
May 31, 12:31:15 PDT> *Holly Ross*: Hey Ruby - I'll buy you lunch!
May 31, 12:31:21 PDT> *Rob Cottingham*: the other thing you have to
shake your head at is just how big the freaking problem is - from the
media's corporate lens and pack mentality to the integrity of the voting
system to voter alienation to life during wartime
May 31, 12:31:22 PDT> *Suz 10b*: gr8 sesh!
May 31, 12:31:29 PDT> *dave:lifekludger*: bye
May 31, 12:31:36 PDT> *Ruby*: Holly, free speech, civil liberties,
taxes, etc.
May 31, 12:31:53 PDT> *Holly Ross*: that's a 3 drink conversation Ruby
May 31, 12:31:54 PDT> *Ruby*: Deal!
May 31, 12:31:56 PDT> *dave:lifekludger*: 5am here -sleep
May 31, 12:31:56 PDT> *Suz 10b*: bye dave
May 31, 12:32:02 PDT> *Suz 10b*: thanks
May 31, 12:32:28 PDT> *Daniell*: Seadog and KP, see you in a couple
weeks....
May 31, 12:32:38 PDT> *Ruby*: I have all night.
May 31, 12:45:19 PDT> *MJanofsky*: Hey Everyone! I'm Michael Janofsky,
and I'll be your moderator for the next hour beginning in about 15
minutes! :D
May 31, 12:48:19 PDT> *MJanofsky*: is there a moderator here right now
(from the 12:00 PST hour?)\
May 31, 12:48:46 PDT> *DaniellKrawczyk*: I think it's just us chickens
May 31, 12:49:13 PDT> *DaniellKrawczyk*: I'm guessing everyone actually
at the conference is eating right now
May 31, 12:50:50 PDT> *MJanofsky*: probably
May 31, 12:50:57 PDT> *MJanofsky*: i dont know the schedule for the
actualy conference
May 31, 12:51:45 PDT> *DaniellKrawczyk*: there were between 40 and 60
people in this chat 15 minutes ago
May 31, 12:52:02 PDT> *DaniellKrawczyk*: and they all left within 2 minutes
May 31, 12:52:10 PDT> *DaniellKrawczyk*: must have been the dinner bell
May 31, 12:53:51 PDT> *MJanofsky*: probably
May 31, 12:54:00 PDT> *MJanofsky*: are you at the actualy conference
Daniell?
May 31, 12:54:07 PDT> *MJanofsky*: *actual
May 31, 12:54:15 PDT> *DaniellKrawczyk*: No, I'm across the country in
North Carolina
May 31, 12:54:35 PDT> *DaniellKrawczyk*: Though I'll be in the area in a
week and a half for Vloggercon
May 31, 12:54:40 PDT> *MJanofsky*: ah ha, great to see someone else!
May 31, 12:54:51 PDT> *DaniellKrawczyk*: ha
May 31, 12:55:04 PDT> *DaniellKrawczyk*: and yourself?
May 31, 12:55:47 PDT> *MJanofsky*: i'm stuck in VT
May 31, 12:56:22 PDT> *DaniellKrawczyk*: oh, where in VT?
May 31, 12:56:36 PDT> *MJanofsky*: Anyone here actually at the
NetSquared Conference?
May 31, 12:56:48 PDT> *MJanofsky*: (Northern....I won't be any more
specific here)
May 31, 12:57:05 PDT> *DaniellKrawczyk*: Beautiful area (not
specifically of course)
May 31, 12:57:22 PDT> *MJanofsky*: yeah, it is nice
May 31, 13:05:43 PDT> *MJanofsky*: Anyone here at the real Net2
conference today?
May 31, 13:18:28 PDT> *MJanofsky*: 12 Gabbers!
May 31, 13:18:32 PDT> *MJanofsky*: How is everyone doing today?
May 31, 13:21:15 PDT> *Eric*: I am away myself
May 31, 13:21:37 PDT> *MJanofsky*: are you at the conference?
May 31, 13:21:38 PDT> *MJanofsky*: Hi Eric!
May 31, 13:21:46 PDT> *Eric*: Hi MJ
May 31, 13:23:47 PDT> *MJanofsky*: Alex-Are you "the" Alex-the
coordinator of these chats?
May 31, 13:23:53 PDT> *Eric*: How is VT today?
May 31, 13:24:18 PDT> *MJanofsky*: not to bad
May 31, 13:24:24 PDT> *MJanofsky*: raining & t-storms
May 31, 13:24:52 PDT> *Eric*: Sounds not too great...
May 31, 13:25:00 PDT> *dave:lifekludger*: anyone from net2 here?
May 31, 13:25:12 PDT> *MJanofsky*: it could be worse.....the rain is
pretty light this time 'round
May 31, 13:25:24 PDT> *Alex*: hi Michael, you rang?
May 31, 13:25:31 PDT> *Eric*: Dave: I'm from CM, pretty close :)
May 31, 13:25:54 PDT> *MJanofsky*: yeah
May 31, 13:25:58 PDT> *MJanofsky*: did you get my email
May 31, 13:26:00 PDT> *Alex*: yes, that's me Michael
May 31, 13:26:03 PDT> *dave:lifekludger*: i'm trying find link to
podcast feed
May 31, 13:26:17 PDT> *MJanofsky*: I wasn't sure what chat I should be
in, so I am jumping (well, mostly the regular chat) back and forth
May 31, 13:26:26 PDT> *MJanofsky*: i couldnt figure it out! :)
May 31, 13:26:26 PDT> *Alex*: ok, checking now
May 31, 13:26:37 PDT> *Alex*: I think you're doing a great job int he
remote room
May 31, 13:26:56 PDT> *MJanofsky*: thx
May 31, 13:27:01 PDT> *Eric*: http://www.odeo.com/channel/41065/view
May 31, 13:27:14 PDT> *MJanofsky*: what's that link for Eric?
May 31, 13:27:30 PDT> *dave:lifekludger*: thnx eric
May 31, 13:27:30 PDT> *Alex*: and moderation hasn't turned out to be
needed in the hallway
May 31, 13:27:31 PDT> *Eric*: the podcasts should be posted
post-conference (sorry, this is the link for podcasts
May 31, 13:27:33 PDT> *Alex*: (thanks, everyone!!)
May 31, 13:27:53 PDT> *Alex*: so if you can stay on top of the current
remote chat, you're doing me a huge favour!
May 31, 13:27:58 PDT> *MJanofsky*: thx
May 31, 13:28:02 PDT> *MJanofsky*: ok
May 31, 13:28:24 PDT> *dave:lifekludger*: bloody hard 2 find on net2
website at 5am in australia
May 31, 13:28:44 PDT> *Eric*: whats hard to find?
May 31, 13:28:55 PDT> *Eric*: everything is hard at 5am :)
May 31, 13:29:11 PDT> *dave:lifekludger*: link to podcast feed
May 31, 13:29:13 PDT> *MJanofsky*: yeah
May 31, 13:29:21 PDT> *MJanofsky*: even making coffee to make 5 am less hard
May 31, 13:29:43 PDT> *Alex*: hey everybody, I have some terribly
exciting news
May 31, 13:29:57 PDT> *Alex*: if you refresh this page, you'll be able
to access transcripts from yesterday's hallway chat
May 31, 13:30:01 PDT> *MJanofsky*: WHAT WHAT tell us!!!!!!!!!! :D
May 31, 13:30:37 PDT> *Eric*: very cool thanks!
May 31, 13:30:53 PDT> *gabber346*: nice
May 31, 13:31:06 PDT> *MJanofsky*: does that apply to the remote chat as
well?
May 31, 13:31:35 PDT> *Michael_Janofsky*: (fyi: to make it easy, i was
MJanofsky)
May 31, 13:32:12 PDT> *Eric*: Both chats are being logged, but the
remote one is not up yet.
May 31, 13:33:12 PDT> *Michael_Janofsky*: ok
May 31, 13:33:26 PDT> *Michael_Janofsky*: (i don't want to refresh
mine.....bad things happen!!!!)
May 31, 13:33:27 PDT> *Alex*: remote will be up soon
May 31, 13:33:31 PDT> *Michael_Janofsky*: (M$ Demons!)
May 31, 13:33:37 PDT> *Alex*: I want to break the remote chats down
hour-by-hour/speaker-by-speaker
May 31, 13:33:42 PDT> *Alex*: which will take a little time
May 31, 13:33:44 PDT> *Eric*: good idea
May 31, 13:33:56 PDT> *Alex*: re: refreshing, try opening the hallway in
a new tab/window/browser
May 31, 13:34:00 PDT> *Michael_Janofsky*: that's great.
May 31, 13:34:05 PDT> *Alex*: then once you're up in the new window,
close this one
May 31, 13:34:19 PDT> *Michael_Janofsky*: (i mean the remote one......)
May 31, 13:34:25 PDT> *Michael_Janofsky*: (had issues yesterday
May 31, 13:34:25 PDT> *Michael_Janofsky*: )
May 31, 13:35:02 PDT> *Eric*: I also do the hallway using this url:
http://gabbly.com/netsquared.org/hallway. This lets you expand the
screen if you like
May 31, 13:35:54 PDT> *Alex*: yes, the DIY implementation is nicer
May 31, 13:36:03 PDT> *Alex*: but we thought it was nifty to just
integrate it into the page
May 31, 13:36:36 PDT> *Eric*: They are both fine, depends what you want
:) I have two monitors now, so lots of realestate available!
May 31, 13:36:50 PDT> *Alex*: Michael! you're sucha geek!
May 31, 13:37:02 PDT> *Alex*: all that asterisk info -- i had no idea
that was up your sleeve. bravo.
May 31, 13:38:26 PDT> *Alex*: George Carlin has this bit about how
anyone who drives faster than you is an asshole, and anyone who drives
slower than you is an idiot, or something to that effect
May 31, 13:38:35 PDT> *Alex*: and I think I define anyone who knows more
tech stuff than I do as a geek, and less as a luddite ;)
May 31, 13:39:40 PDT> *Eric*: So that brings up a point, whats the
difference between a geek and a nerd. Had several raging discussions on
this point lately.
May 31, 13:41:28 PDT> *dave:lifekludger*: eric. how are the chats
logged? technicall?
May 31, 13:41:37 PDT> *Michael_Janofsky*: me back now
May 31, 13:42:12 PDT> *Michael_Janofsky*: yeah, I am a geek.
May 31, 13:42:17 PDT> *Eric*: Well, I know Alex has been keeping a
browser open to log them. I dont know if there is anything more
technical than this employed currently
May 31, 13:42:38 PDT> *Eric*: as opposed to a nerd? why?
May 31, 13:42:47 PDT> *dave:lifekludger*: wot? copy/paste?
May 31, 13:42:48 PDT> *Michael_Janofsky*: wow
May 31, 13:42:53 PDT> *Michael_Janofsky*: That's funny alex
May 31, 13:43:03 PDT> *Eric*: Alex is on it for sure!
May 31, 13:43:03 PDT> *Michael_Janofsky*: (re: faster/slower luddite/geek)
May 31, 13:43:40 PDT> *Michael_Janofsky*: lol
May 31, 13:44:19 PDT> *dave:lifekludger*: just wondered about process
May 31, 13:44:23 PDT> *Michael_Janofsky*: I think PEBKAC errors occur
all too often!
May 31, 13:44:42 PDT> *Emily*: Hi all
May 31, 13:44:45 PDT> *Eric*: PEBKAC?
May 31, 13:44:49 PDT> *Eric*: Hi Emily!
May 31, 13:46:06 PDT> *Michael_Janofsky*: (Problem Exists Between
Keyboard And Chair)
May 31, 13:46:09 PDT> *Eric*: right!
May 31, 13:46:34 PDT> *Michael_Janofsky*: lol
May 31, 13:47:13 PDT> *Michael_Janofsky*: there was another one too.........
May 31, 13:47:37 PDT> *Emily*: the remote page is not working
May 31, 13:47:44 PDT> *Emily*: nevermind
May 31, 13:49:41 PDT> *Michael_Janofsky*: I was having trouble with my
computer, so I called the computer guy over to my desk. He clicked a
couple of buttons and solved the problem. As he was walking away, I
called after him, "So, what was wrong?"
May 31, 13:50:04 PDT> *Emily*: there was a problem with gabbly
May 31, 13:50:14 PDT> *Eric*: gabbly hiccup
May 31, 13:50:28 PDT> *Michael_Janofsky*: anyone know what the problem
with that computer was (see my last message)
May 31, 13:51:06 PDT> *dave:lifekludger*: power off?
May 31, 13:51:14 PDT> *Alex*: missed the question re: chat transcripts
May 31, 13:51:17 PDT> *Eric*: the user? :)
May 31, 13:51:43 PDT> *Alex*: basically the situation is that gabbly
offers rss transcripts, but if you haven't subscribed before the chat
begins, you can only get the last 200 messages
May 31, 13:51:49 PDT> *Alex*: once you are subscribed you get all
transcripts from then on
May 31, 13:52:07 PDT> *Alex*: but since they come in chunks, you end up
with something that isn't really in chronological order
May 31, 13:52:20 PDT> *Alex*: you get the most recent 10 mins, followed
by what happened 10-20 mins ago, etc
May 31, 13:52:22 PDT> *Alex*: so it's tough to read
May 31, 13:52:43 PDT> *Emily*: I thought I saw somewhere that you were
posting yesterday's
May 31, 13:52:50 PDT> *Alex*: which is why the Gabbly folks very kindly
offered to give us a complete dump of the transcripts, in chronological
order, so we could post them in a format that was easy to read
May 31, 13:53:18 PDT> *dave:lifekludger*: yeah i see that hard to read
May 31, 13:53:42 PDT> *Michael_Janofsky*: Emily-Is your problem fixed now?
May 31, 13:53:48 PDT> *Michael_Janofsky*: (sorry for not responding before)
May 31, 13:53:57 PDT> *Emily*: yes, seems to be
May 31, 13:54:03 PDT> *dave:lifekludger*: i think an option to log would
be good
May 31, 13:54:14 PDT> *Emily*: I was suppose to moderate a remote
session and I kept getting logged off
May 31, 13:57:39 PDT> *Emily*: um problem, rss feeds aren't working in
bloglines
May 31, 13:57:51 PDT> *Emily*: I am glad I subscribed to google reader
last night
May 31, 13:59:00 PDT> *Michael_Janofsky*: FYI Boris Mann's chat is
coming to an end! http://www.netsquared.org/remote
May 31, 14:01:01 PDT> *Michael_Janofsky*: Alex-you still here?
May 31, 14:02:23 PDT> *Michael_Janofsky*: Alllllllllex???
May 31, 14:05:33 PDT> *Michael_Janofsky*: Well, it looks like my time
for now is up!
May 31, 14:05:40 PDT> *Emily*: ok
May 31, 14:06:06 PDT> *Michael_Janofsky*: You can reach me @ mpjanofsky
[at] gmail [dot] comm Thanks!
May 31, 14:36:35 PDT> *Alex*: adios!
May 31, 14:36:46 PDT> *Alex*: thanks Michael
May 31, 14:41:29 PDT> *Alex*: is anyone else in here? I'm amazed at how
quiet this room has become.
May 31, 14:41:37 PDT> *gabber430*: yeppers... im here
May 31, 14:41:43 PDT> *Alex*: Maybe because everyone is so engaged in
the "making it happen" sessions?
May 31, 14:41:45 PDT> *gabber430*: and ditto
May 31, 14:41:55 PDT> *Alex*: 430, are you in San Jose or elsewhere?
May 31, 14:42:01 PDT> *gabber430*: elsewhere. MN.
May 31, 14:42:37 PDT> *Emily*: Hi
May 31, 14:42:39 PDT> *gabber430*: hrm... guess I'll have to wait for
the vlog/blog of the sessions
May 31, 14:46:43 PDT> *gabber524*: hello, has anyone seen heddy about there?
May 31, 14:49:07 PDT> *Alex*: some of the session notes are now online
May 31, 14:49:07 PDT> *Alex*: Roland Tanglao has been videoblogging
May 31, 14:49:07 PDT> *erin*: hmmmm... good point
May 31, 14:49:26 PDT> *Alex*: but the bandwidth on site has been
limited, so he's had trouble uploading
May 31, 14:49:26 PDT> *ClareWhite*: are there any audio podcasts?
May 31, 14:50:27 PDT> *Alex*: there will be some -- Roland I think has
done some
May 31, 14:50:29 PDT> *Emily*: where are the session notes?
May 31, 14:50:54 PDT> *erin*: anybody here have experience with vlogging?
May 31, 14:51:28 PDT> *Alex*: Emily, standby for URLS ;)
May 31, 14:51:37 PDT> *Emily*: ok
May 31, 14:52:16 PDT> *Alex*: ok, official session notes aren't
available yet
May 31, 14:52:30 PDT> *Emily*: that's what I thought
May 31, 14:52:31 PDT> *erin*: makes sense... sessions are still going on
May 31, 14:52:37 PDT> *erin*: but thanks for looking!
May 31, 14:52:45 PDT> *Alex*: but if you go to the conference schedule
(http://www.netsquared.org/conference/conference-schedule) and click on
any of the session titles from yesterday, you'll find notes, comments,
and in the right-hand sidebar, links to blog posts about each sess
May 31, 14:52:47 PDT> *Alex*: ion
May 31, 14:53:29 PDT> *Emily*: thanks Alex
May 31, 15:17:43 PDT> *Michael_Janofsky*: anyone here right now?
May 31, 15:25:37 PDT> *Emily*: I just came in
May 31, 16:19:35 PDT> *MJanofsky*: Who's here now?
May 31, 16:20:12 PDT> *MJanofsky*: ("can you hear me now? good. now?
good..." -Verizon Wireless Commercial)
May 31, 16:26:08 PDT> *MJanofsky*: Alex- did u catch my message?
May 31, 16:42:23 PDT> *MJanofsky*: Looks Like the NetSquared Conference
is coming to an end shortly!!!! It's been FANTASTIC!!!!
May 31, 16:52:09 PDT> *Alex*: it has been great, hasn't it?
May 31, 16:58:10 PDT> *mseyfang-AUS*: conference ending - excellent, I
just found the 'hallway' ;-)
May 31, 16:58:22 PDT> *mseyfang-AUS*: better late than never
May 31, 16:59:23 PDT> *mseyfang-AUS*: anyone else here attending the
conference 'remotely'?
May 31, 17:01:53 PDT> *MJanofsky*: (raises hand)
May 31, 17:05:54 PDT> *mseyfang-AUS*: Is any audio from the conference
available yet?
May 31, 17:06:06 PDT> *MJanofsky*: I'm not sure (alex...)
May 31, 17:08:40 PDT> *Alex*: no audio yet, I don't think
May 31, 17:08:58 PDT> *MJanofsky*: Not yet.....
May 31, 17:08:59 PDT> *Alex*: we've had some video/audio bloggers but I
don't think they've been able to upload in real time
May 31, 17:08:59 PDT> *mseyfang-AUS*: is it likely to appear anywhere
other than your odeo feed: http://odeo.com/channel/41065/view
May 31, 17:09:07 PDT> *Alex*: a lot more stuff should appear on the site
in the next week
May 31, 17:10:02 PDT> *mseyfang-AUS*: hmm - would have been way cool for
us internationals to have one or two sessions per day posted in the same
half of the day as the session
May 31, 17:10:41 PDT> *mseyfang-AUS*: audio gives great cues for
connections between people who havent met
May 31, 17:12:47 PDT> *Alex*: mseyfang, can you add that to
http://www.netsquared.org/next-actions as a suggestion for the next con?
it wasn't practical this year due to bandwidth limitations but if the
team hears demand for this then bandwidth and audio options will factor
May 31, 17:12:57 PDT> *Alex*: more heavily in planning future events
May 31, 17:13:57 PDT> *Alex*: ok, I've added "organize a reunion" as a
next action so folks go & comment on this
(http://www.netsquared.org/run-a-remote-conference-reunion) if you think
it's a good idea, would participate, or could help organize/find speakers
May 31, 17:14:19 PDT> *Alex*: I have to log off -- thanks again to
everyone for making the hallway such a lively part of the conference.
May 31, 17:14:31 PDT> *Alex*: You all saved me from feeling dreadfully
envious of the folks in San Jose!!
May 31, 17:14:49 PDT> *mseyfang-AUS*: sure thing, will update
next-actions with a summary post of feedback
May 31, 17:18:34 PDT> *Rob Cottingham*: That URL for the mashup:
http://dougherty.ning.com/
May 31, 17:19:04 PDT> *Rob Cottingham*: The blogs created were at
http://net2coolbloggers.blogspot.com/ and http://interplast.blogs.com/net2/
May 31, 17:19:44 PDT> *Rob Cottingham*: (The last two comments are
related to the takeaways from this aft's sprint sessions)
May 31, 17:26:28 PDT> *MJanofsky*: Well, it's been good.
May 31, 17:26:31 PDT> *MJanofsky*: Good night everyone.
